Woodman Arms Patriot .45 - talk me down off this ledge!

[Mnt monkey]

One of my Patriots is 24 twists 45 the other one is an 18 twist 45 ,,,, I shoot the 240 OT 40 cal and a 250 black tip 40 cal from fury both in the light blue sabot,, both rifles consistently will group three shots around a half inch with either bullet,, I was shooting 70 grains of blackhorn by weight in both rifles,, since both rifle shot so well with the light blue and a 240 or 50 grain fury bullet I saw no need to bore ride in either gun,, I have not chronograph either rifle or load I'm sorry,,, you might have read this on another post if not I need to repeat it I like both rifles so much I have cleaned them up and put them in the closet to give to my son's . There may be others that have shot their Patriot a lot more than I have they could give you better information,, sounds like I need to buy a beater Patriot just to shoot and drag through the woods a little bit I don't think he sells a beater model though.. now your second question there and it may be a question that would be better suited for a completely different thread and I know there's a lot of opinions on the topic,, I only shoot bore riders if I'm target shooting if I'm hunting and my gun will group a half inch or better with a sabot load then that's what I'm hunting with, again this is just where I like to be and where I've come to, but I like how a sabot seats in a rifle,, even using witness marks it is a much more secure feel of seating for me ,,again that's just personal preference,, a week ago I left in the afternoon out My back door to hit the creek bottom to hunt it was 3:30 in the afternoon my tennis shoes were soaking wet after about a hundred yard walk it was still due on the grass from the morning and the night before at 3:30 in the afternoon the next day, Southeast Texas is humid moist wet in the fall and winter even if it hasn't rained in a week or two every morning, a lot of moisture and fog,, often it may be a lot different at 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon conditions may change I've learned the hard way that sometimes those conditions change can really affect seating a bore riding bullet in any barrel at least they do in my climate,, for me a sabot seats better it seals my powder charge better I don't worry about it falling off the powder column especially if it fits right and I don't worry about my powder getting wet I don't worry about sticking a bullet if I'm excited and the weather conditions or my bore has changed from what it was early in the morning. I've hunted with bore riders before and had my bullet sized but had one of them that had a little bit more spring back than the other bullets did just kind of out of the blue had to almost beat it down the bore to reload. I don't like second shots been a long time since I needed one but I know and the rush of excitement that those little milliseconds getting a gun reloaded can mean the difference in success or not I have learned to really like the speed of drop my powder, seat my sabot and bullet, throw a primer in the gun ready to go!! Shot this group last night at 500 yards this is 57 grains of 4198 a 240 fury OT,, light blue sabot, Wilson barrel 45 Cal 450 457 barrel,, smokeless load only reason I posted this just to show you what a sabot and a 40 cal can do in a 45,, had about a 12 mile an hour wind blowing right to left,, 2 to 10 power AR sightron scope no target scope. I don't think I've helped you much it's kind of crazy to say you like two rifles so much you decide to put them up ,,normally I would just shoot the wheels off of them I'm sure not a gun collector.. I am convinced if you hunt hard in the mountains ,,hunting the wilderness, you hunt all day long you're going to like that Patriot if you're just looking for a rifle to go get in a box stand and hunt for a couple hours it may not be the rifle for you

 

[LHR]

One of my Patriots is 24 twists 45 the other one is an 18 twist 45 ,,,, I shoot the 240 OT 40 cal and a 250 black tip 40 cal from fury both in the light blue sabot,, both rifles consistently will group three shots around a half inch with either bullet,, I was shooting 70 grains of blackhorn by weight in both rifles,, since both rifle shot so well with the light blue and a 240 or 50 grain fury bullet I saw no need to bore ride in either gun,, I have not chronograph either rifle or load I'm sorry,,, you might have read this on another post if not I need to repeat it I like both rifles so much I have cleaned them up and put them in the closet to give to my son's . There may be others that have shot their Patriot a lot more than I have they could give you better information,, sounds like I need to buy a beater Patriot just to shoot and drag through the woods a little bit I don't think he sells a beater model though.. now your second question there and it may be a question that would be better suited for a completely different thread and I know there's a lot of opinions on the topic,, I only shoot bore riders if I'm target shooting if I'm hunting and my gun will group a half inch or better with a sabot load then that's what I'm hunting with, again this is just where I like to be and where I've come to, but I like how a sabot seats in a rifle,, even using witness marks it is a much more secure feel of seating for me ,,again that's just personal preference,, a week ago I left in the afternoon out My back door to hit the creek bottom to hunt it was 3:30 in the afternoon my tennis shoes were soaking wet after about a hundred yard walk it was still due on the grass from the morning and the night before at 3:30 in the afternoon the next day, Southeast Texas is humid moist wet in the fall and winter even if it hasn't rained in a week or two every morning, a lot of moisture and fog,, often it may be a lot different at 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon conditions may change I've learned the hard way that sometimes those conditions change can really affect seating a bore riding bullet in any barrel at least they do in my climate,, for me a sabot seats better it seals my powder charge better I don't worry about it falling off the powder column especially if it fits right and I don't worry about my powder getting wet I don't worry about sticking a bullet if I'm excited and the weather conditions or my bore has changed from what it was early in the morning. I've hunted with bore riders before and had my bullet sized but had one of them that had a little bit more spring back than the other bullets did just kind of out of the blue had to almost beat it down the bore to reload. I don't like second shots been a long time since I needed one but I know and the rush of excitement that those little milliseconds getting a gun reloaded can mean the difference in success or not I have learned to really like the speed of drop my powder, seat my sabot and bullet, throw a primer in the gun ready to go!! Shot this group last night at 500 yards this is 57 grains of 4198 a 240 fury OT,, light blue sabot, Wilson barrel 45 Cal 450 457 barrel,, smokeless load only reason I posted this just to show you what a sabot and a 40 cal can do in a 45,, had about a 12 mile an hour wind blowing right to left,, 2 to 10 power AR sightron scope no target scope. I don't think I've helped you much it's kind of crazy to say you like two rifles so much you decide to put them up ,,normally I would just shoot the wheels off of them I'm sure not a gun collector.. I am convinced if you hunt hard in the mountains ,,hunting the wilderness, you hunt all day long you're going to like that Patriot if you're just looking for a rifle to go get in a box stand and hunt for a couple hours it may not be the rifle for you

Thanks for the reply, you have helped me more than you know with this. I was set on using full bore bullets, but you have opened my eyes a bit on seating issues that I had kind of been thinking about but did not know anything about. In a hunting situation I am with you on quick loading without hassle for those pesky follow up shots. Twice now I have shot a bull elk 3 times and almost a 4th before he hit the dirt. They just soak up the bullets even though they are dead on their feet, they don't know that yet!
One thing I have learned is that if its still standing I keep shooting!

 

[Cattledog]

I gave the muzzleloader to my son. I don't have a go-to load. I will work on that this winter. It will be a short range load max 150 yards.
I hunt most of the time with a .50 ultralight.

 

[JeffB1961]

concerning the recoil comments on the Patriot since it's so light .....

Mark is making me a patriot with a brux 45 barrel and i'm getting him to thread the end 3/4-24 for a muzzle brake and i'm also getting him to make me a radial muzzle brake and of course he's gonna nitride it also .

 

[Mnt monkey]

The Patriot is the ideal walking hunting carrying all day rifle ,, shooting it from the bench and working up loads it is a little tough to handle, having the muzzle brake will help you out a lot, work up a load with a good bore rider, pull it off and work a plastic load up. You will have a versatile rifle capable of multiple loads less than MOA you'll see.

 

[JeffB1961]

thanks . i'll be looking to get a LB. of n120 and lb. of which ever 4198 it is that does better in cold weather . i'm gonna start with sabot loads because it's simpler . furys are 1st on the list because that's what mark recommends and folks here always give good comments on them . i'll get some wads also just in case the .45 ca; .452 250 grain XTPs i have will fit without sizing . some knight sabotted coppers are also on the list and anarchy will get some of my money when i'm ready to try full bore as well as fury . the $250ish for a hankins sizer and the lee hand press is gonna put full bore off till after new years . i think i'll let Miss Santa get them for me .

i still have at least another month to wait since i ordered in January , but i understand it may take longer and i knew that upfront . as long as i get it by september i'm fine (my B-day is the 3rd) so that'll give me plenty of time to get used to it befor deer season .

i know i'll never be able to out shoot it because i'm newn to muzzleloading and big recoil . but i had such a bad experience with CVA and i want to make dang skippy i get something really nice . i strongly considered a knight , they have a huge fanboy base here , but they don't do smokeless without a barrel change FWIU and i feel if i'm gonna spend a grand plus not getting smokeless leaves a lot of potiential unavailable IMO . and Va. allows smokeless during ML season so there's that . plus Marks adjustable breech plugs are on my radar when i get interested in going more hard core .

the enabelers here have really done their job on me !

 

[GM54-120]

You will save some cash not being stuck using only subs. Just do the math for example. 56grW of N120 will destroy 120grV of BH209 in speed. Last i looked you could get N120 for $40-44 a pound. Even at $50 per pound you are around half the price per shot.