XTP--80 Grain Conditions

[ronlaughlin]

That's the 250g XTP after blasting through the carpet, plywood, and three jugs.

About 1/4 second after impact the jugs looked this way.

The XTP bounced off the fourth jug, and was found on the ground directly under the horse. The fourth, and fifth jug were undamaged, except for a slight mark in the label of the fourth jug where the XTP hit. The first, and second jug were toast. The rifle was loaded with 80g Blackhorn, and the 250g XTP in a short black Harvester sabot.

 

[sabotloader]

Ron the XTP has been doing this for years - in most cases it is an excellent bullet. When I was testing the bullet on occasions I could get it to strip the lead from the copper which did lead me to leave the bullet and look for a bullet that would stay together. In those days I turned back to the Nosler 260 grain Partition. And you already know the value of the Partitions.

 

[rwbaker]

Nice test bad ass bullet !

 

[WV Hunter]

My guess is more ML deer have been killed with XTP's than most any other bullet. They are reliable, accurate, and inexpensive.

Nice job Ron :yeah:

 

[jakesdad]

Ron the XTP has been doing this for years - in most cases it is an excellent bullet. When I was testing the bullet on occasions I could get it to strip the lead from the copper which did lead me to leave the bullet and look for a bullet that would stay together. In those days I turned back to the Nosler 260 grain Partition. And you already know the value of the Partitions.

I noticed this also after finding several pieces of fragmented bullets in deer I had shot. Bullet never failed to kill animals but it did concern me some what.Thats when I switched over to the Nosler Partition. Still have plenty of XTPs and would not hesitate to use again if I had too. They do make good varmint loads as so not to shoot up the pricier Noslers.

 

[WV Hunter]

Ron the XTP has been doing this for years - in most cases it is an excellent bullet. When I was testing the bullet on occasions I could get it to strip the lead from the copper which did lead me to leave the bullet and look for a bullet that would stay together. In those days I turned back to the Nosler 260 grain Partition. And you already know the value of the Partitions.

I noticed this also after finding several pieces of fragmented bullets in deer I had shot. Bullet never failed to kill animals but it did concern me some what.Thats when I switched over to the Nosler Partition. Still have plenty of XTPs and would not hesitate to use again if I had too. They do make good varmint loads as so not to shoot up the pricier Noslers.

Every cup/core bullet of any brand that is not bonded has the potential to do this from time to time. Certainly doesn't mean it failed, it just happens sometimes based on what it hits and and how it impacts the animal. I've had that happen a few times too, both with ML and Centerfires... NEVER did it ever cost me an animal, in fact they were dead in short order. Its just the nature of a non bonded bullet. Pretty much almost all the deer I've killed (and its been alot) have been with these type of bullets. Occasionally I use a bonded or copper or lead, but most jacketed cup/core bullets.

 

[sabotloader]

Ron the XTP has been doing this for years - in most cases it is an excellent bullet. When I was testing the bullet on occasions I could get it to strip the lead from the copper which did lead me to leave the bullet and look for a bullet that would stay together. In those days I turned back to the Nosler 260 grain Partition. And you already know the value of the Partitions.

I noticed this also after finding several pieces of fragmented bullets in deer I had shot. Bullet never failed to kill animals but it did concern me some what.Thats when I switched over to the Nosler Partition. Still have plenty of XTPs and would not hesitate to use again if I had too. They do make good varmint loads as so not to shoot up the pricier Noslers.

Every cup/core bullet of any brand that is not bonded has the potential to do this from time to time. Certainly doesn't mean it failed, it just happens sometimes based on what it hits and and how it impacts the animal.

I agree with your statement but why even shoot the bullet that might break up - when there are better bullet available that do not show this problem. I am greedy I want almost instant terminal performance.

I've had that happen a few times too, both with ML and Centerfires... NEVER did it ever cost me an animal, in fact they were dead in short order. Its just the nature of a non bonded bullet. Pretty much almost all the deer I've killed (and its been alot) have been with these type of bullets. Occasionally I use a bonded or copper or lead, but most jacketed cup/core bullets.

How many elk have you shot with a bullet that breaks up or pencils - I choose not to have to worry about it. If I do my job I want the bullet to do its job. Also in this area you really do not want an animal to run to far - that makes the difference between taking the animal home or spending a lot of time trying to salvage an animal in a place you really do not want to be.

Why take a chance?

 

[jakesdad]

Your pics show exactly what I experienced. Every Nosler Partition I've recovered has looked textbook as far as mushrooming results. What concerned me most whether warranted or not,is what would happen to that XTP if I happened to encounter a large shoulder blade or something on bigger game.

 

[sabotloader]

Your pics show exactly what I experienced. Every Nosler Partition I've recovered has looked textbook as far as mushrooming results. What concerned me most whether warranted or not,is what would happen to that XTP if I happened to encounter a large shoulder blade or something on bigger game.

That is something I wanted to eliminate - so back in the old days - I switched to Nosler Partitions as I had done in my centerfire rifles.

I really have not recovered many Noslers from a Harvest but here is a couple



and this is what it did.





This one is from a really nice buck



I know longer use the Partition but that has nothing to do with the bullet - they are great bullets.

 

[cljohnson24]

For medium to large deer there simply isn't a better bullet than the .452 250XTP from anywhere between 1200-2200fps inside 200 yards.
At closer ranges when pushed fast, they won't exit, BUT they drop right there like magic. If you are a believer in "pass thrus"(which I personally believe is wasted energy/potential trauma) or like to push the speed envelope then the 300 grn version is just the ticket. I've shot numerous deer with both 250/300 xtps and ssts and have found the 250 xtp to be the "perfect" deer bullet. For larger game such as elk or muleys, I would choose the .452 300 sst as they are IMO one of the most accurate in my rifles at longer ranges with the least wind drift and the perfect balance of expansion vs penetration for my taste.

This year I've put a lot of my chips on the .40 200gr SST and XTP and based upon a lot of input I hope to get similar performance with a bit less recoil/flatter trajectory.

 

[Anonymous]

Nice post Johnson..... until your last sentence and that recommendation of the 40-cal 200 gr XTP. In my opinion, they don't hold up. If you are stuck on using inexpensive bulk bullets, try the lightweight 200 grain / 44-cal Speer Gold Dots instead. Midway has them available. The 40-cal 195 Barnes Expanders / 185 Precision Polymer Tips are my favorite in that group size, but they are not bulk-priced or inexpensive. I also like your 200 gr. SST recommendation too. I have a ton of those. I prefer the slimmer 200 over the wider 250 grain for expansion.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/29...-hollow-point-box-of-100?cm_vc=ProductFinding

A real nice bullet I received last week are the long, slim 44-cal 225 gr. all-copper Barnes XPBs 20pks. I got mine for 13.99, but the price went up - but still under $20 at Cabelas.com

 

[GM54-120]

The 200gr XTP holds up ok at around 1800fps MV or less. It will certainly hold up as well as a soft lead 40cal 180gr DeadCenter. I cant imagine why you would think otherwise. Have you shot deer with both for a comparison?

Ive never shot or used the Barnes 44cal 225gr but the 45cal 225gr is an excellent bullet and you have far more sabot choices. Its one of the favorite bullets of several NULA owners on the board including me. Expansion is reliable and very violent on both deer and media.

 

[GM54-120]

Your pics show exactly what I experienced. Every Nosler Partition I've recovered has looked textbook as far as mushrooming results. What concerned me most whether warranted or not,is what would happen to that XTP if I happened to encounter a large shoulder blade or something on bigger game.

Same here, every single Partition ive recovered looked like that. 44/250gr, 45/260gr and 45/300gr. Very very consistent and predictable performance.

 

[GM54-120]

If it pleases the court, i would like to offer this into evidence. The test was done by Doohan. He was one of the old timers on the board. The test was run in 2007 before we got all "techie" and started using jugs instead of ballistic gel.

This is the media and range was 50 yards.

Velocity is quite a bit higher than smoker speed at around 2250fps MV. Bullet retained 209gr but penetration was only around 14"

A comparison of several popular bullets can be read here in our non smoking section. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6450

 

[Anonymous]

The 200gr XTP holds up ok at around 1800fps MV or less. It will certainly hold up as well as a soft lead 40cal 180gr DeadCenter. I cant imagine why you would think otherwise. Have you shot deer with both for a comparison?

Ive never shot or used the Barnes 44cal 225gr but the 45cal 225gr is an excellent bullet and you have far more sabot choices. Its one of the favorite bullets of several NULA owners on the board including me. Expansion is reliable and very violent on both deer and media.

I will presume your definition of OK means soft tissue at 1800. Most shooters hit 1800 when the 200 XTP leaves the bore. All these discussions need an asterisk attached, for what most members here use, is not what a vast majority of USA ML shooters use. Even the Hornady website doesn't vogue for Muzzle Velocity Range (fps) over 1200.

Yes, I've witnessed someone using this bullet. The XTP broke apart using 100 grains Pyrodex pellets at about 75 yards (both are my hunting partner's typical load and typical distances of deer kills) I recall the ribs being hit by this hunting partner and his weeks-later complaint that fragments ruined some of his meat butchered. Happened several years ago, when I was absent due to a death in the family. He-since has been a devout user of the 240 gr. XTP Mag.

 

[GM54-120]

No, ok means 1800fps at the muzzle aka MV and put in the vitals. Common sense says to avoid high shoulder shots or poor shot angles with this bullet.

So you believe a soft lead 40cal 180gr DC will do better at a similar speed? How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[WV Hunter]

How many elk have you shot with a bullet that breaks up or pencils - I choose not to have to worry about it. If I do my job I want the bullet to do its job. Also in this area you really do not want an animal to run to far - that makes the difference between taking the animal home or spending a lot of time trying to salvage an animal in a place you really do not want to be.

Why take a chance?

Mike I have not shot any elk with any bullet. If I was to hunt elk (hope to someday), I'd likely pick a different bullet than an XTP.
But my point is, just because a non-bonded cup/core bullet has jacket/lead separation occasionally, doesn't mean it failed... and more importantly, doesn't automatically mean you won't kill the animal (and possibly in short order).
I've taken at least 100 whitetails with cup/core bullets, only ever lost 2 and they were due to poor shot placement many many many years ago.
Every animal I've hit where it counts is dead, and yes...sometimes the bullet came separated from the jacket. I've only ever found a few bullets, probably 95% were pass-throughs. Most that were found held together, a couple had the lead separated from the jacket. One had the jacket just under the offside skin, the core had passed through, deer stumbled abut 30yds.

Now if they had a reputation of blowing up upon impact regularly, that would be different. Not trying to argue, just making a point.
I feel there are much better bullets than XTP's, but honestly I wouldn't hesitate to hunt whitetails with them and feel totally confident.

 

[Anonymous]

No, ok means 1800fps at the muzzle aka MV and put in the vitals. Common sense says to avoid high shoulder shots or poor shot angles with this bullet.

So you believe a soft lead 40cal 180gr DC will do better at a similar speed? How did you come to this conclusion?

No DC bullet. Instead I use Polymer Tips, which expand more than the Dead Centers, which are designed more-so for pass-thrus. My conclusion is simple. The lead Polymer Tips never were a topic with our meat butcher, upon pickup/payment. My last pickup several years ago was a 215 grain Polymer Tip harvest. Now that I've returned to hunting after a seven year haitus, I'm switching to the 180 grain Polymer Tip and 200 grain SST. My bum shoulder said so.

I've been purchasing some 225s - 250s and 240s. An operation on the shoulder may allow me bigger loads again in 2016. One of the regulars here found me a public 200+ yard range in Alpena Mich. My goal are 100+ grain loads and bigger bullets once again....... someday.

Last December, I tested some 180 grain and my buddy's leftover 200 gr XTPs on a tree trunk at about 30 yards-out. Both disintegrated upon impact, leaving nothing metalic in the tree trunk, where-as my leaded Buffalo Ballet and No Excuse bullet made a large imprint in the tree trunk and flattened out pretty wide. That was the last time I shot my CVA Stalker sidelock before selling it a week later.

 

[GM54-120]

Are you talking about PR's QT line? Both the QT and DeadCenter are tipped soft lead bullets. Possibly not dead soft but i strongly doubt they are harder/tougher lead than the core of a XTP.

Soft lead with insufficient mass and sectional density combined with high fps can be problematic. Its simple physics. Why not send Ron a couple of those PR bullets and put my theory to the test. I think you will see they perform no better on his jugs than a similar weight 40cal XTP.

I can send him some 40cal XTPs and maybe some others if he is interested.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll stick with my tree trunk tests. I shoot offhand in the woods. Public land and no gun rests. To me 4" groups at 100-125 yards are what I expect. Besides, I'm more concerned what a bullet does hitting bone with loads under 100 grains volume Pyrosdex or real black, not water jug tests, gel tests......etc.

I do believe it's time for me to relieve myself from this thread. I have nothing more to offer, but my / my buddies eyewitness accounts hunting and target practicing on public land. I try to keep things simple in the woods and leave the science-end to the techies. So tree trunks and deer are all I have to witness.