Utah Muzzy Reg Change

[primer mark]

Does Utah consider poor eye sight a handicap? Looks like the they can't see the forest from the trees.Do that to the hunters with the hi powered rifles with high mag. scopes for the regular big game seasons and see what happens?

 

[ENCORE50A]

I live in Utah. My understanding is that this new regulation was caused by people shooting out to 1000 yards to take game with a muzzleloader. I personally don't believe there are more than handful of people who can do that. I think there will be more wounded animals who get away under this regulation.

They really made this inconsistent, because during the any legal weapon hunt you can still use a magnified scope with a muzzleloader.

Those of us who spent good money to purchase a quality scope for their muzzleloader are not happy campers. I am now putting a red dot on my muzzleloader incurring a couple of hundred dollars to do so.

Are you a member of the Utah Muzzleloaders Association? If not, you should consider it. 71% of hunters who responded to a questionnaire wanted to continue to use scopes. An additional 4% only wanted very slight changes.

 

[biggamehunter78]

You’re welcome to do as I do and use that scoped muzzy on the ALW hunt.

I’m not sure it was “caused” by the few guys that were taking long shots, I just think it was time to pull back on some of the tech and make the muzzy hunt distinguishable from the Any Legal Weapon (ALW). This change does that. Some of the tech/methods was (is) getting out of hand too with cellular cams during the season, baiting, NODs/thermal scopes and rangefinder/scope combos.

Good changes IMO.

It is different, we have one shot and they have many. I 100% agree tech needs reigned in, we just disagree on how to do it. I’d rather see very well and shoot short with a 209 gun, same point UtahHunter makes. To me that’s more ethical than 1X, for more accurate shot placement.

Like I said, DWR has to decide what they want the hunt to be. I don’t think they know.

Having said that I did say to them I’d rather have 1X than nothing. So I’m kinda happy.

 

[ElDiablo]

Are you a member of the Utah Muzzleloaders Association? If not, you should consider it. 71% of hunters who responded to a questionnaire wanted to continue to use scopes. An additional 4% only wanted very slight changes.

The results of the official (statistically valid) poll on the “open sights only” proposal.

 

[UtahHunter]

You’re welcome to do as I do and use that scoped muzzy on the ALW hunt.

I’m not sure it was “caused” by the few guys that were taking long shots, I just think it was time to pull back on some of the tech and make the muzzy hunt distinguishable from the Any Legal Weapon (ALW). This change does that. Some of the tech/methods was (is) getting out of hand too with cellular cams during the season, baiting, NODs/thermal scopes and rangefinder/scope combos.

Good changes IMO.

I like my muzzleloader, but to me, it's just another way to hunt. If I have an any legal weapon tag, my first choice is always going to be my bolt gun, or my AR10. But that's just me.

 

[ENCORE50A]

The results of the official (statistically valid) poll on the “open sights only” proposal.

View attachment 39319

Official???? Its BS and what they wanted people to think. Politics 101.

I'll believe the Utah Muzzleloaders Association numbers before politics.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Unfortunately for Utah........... and once that starts, it won't stop and will get worse.

https://gephardtdaily.com/top-stori...c-wasting-disease-in-deer-in-payson-area/amp/

 

[ElDiablo]

Unfortunately for Utah........... and once that starts, it won't stop and will get worse.

https://gephardtdaily.com/top-stori...c-wasting-disease-in-deer-in-payson-area/amp/

Meh…it’s been confirmed in Utah for more than 20 years. The world hasn’t ended yet.

 

[ElDiablo]

Official???? Its BS and what they wanted people to think. Politics 101.

I'll believe the Utah Muzzleloaders Association numbers before politics.

Riiiiiiight…..

You prefer to believe a Facebook poll of a few hundred guys with an agenda? Come on.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Riiiiiiight…..

You prefer to believe a Facebook poll of a few hundred guys with an agenda? Come on.

I can see you have absolutely ZERO knowledge about politics..............

Even the Utah Mountain Man Group had a representative at the meetings disagreeing with the proposal.

Of the many many respondents, 2.38 to 1 wanted to keep the rules and restrictions as is. Yet it passed.
The majority of those surveyed here and other places didn't want the ban. Yet it passed.

The couple people with power already had their minds made up, REGARDLESS of what the majority of muzzleloader hunters in Utah wanted. Politics 101.

 

[biggamehunter78]

The couple people with power already had their minds made up, REGARDLESS of what the majority of muzzleloader hunters in Utah wanted.

I believe this is a true statement.

 

[ElDiablo]

I can see you have absolutely ZERO knowledge about politics..............

Even the Utah Mountain Man Group had a representative at the meetings disagreeing with the proposal.

Of the many many respondents, 2.38 to 1 wanted to keep the rules and restrictions as is. Yet it passed.
The majority of those surveyed here and other places didn't want the ban. Yet it passed.

The couple people with power already had their minds made up, REGARDLESS of what the majority of muzzleloader hunters in Utah wanted. Politics 101.

The proposal DIDNT pass. The Tech Committee (and DWR) recommendation was to remove scopes from muzzys. That DIDN’T pass. Instead the Wildlife Board went with a compromise - open sights, red dots and 1x scopes.

It’s easy to call everything “politics” when your side lost.

Bottom line from the survey was that 56% of actual muzzy hunters opposed removing scopes altogether. If you consider the views of the guys that hunt multiple weapons, 60 % of them were opposed. Let’s average those two and call it 58% of muzzy hunters in UT didn’t want to completely remove scopes. When you consider what passed in the end (allowing 1x) I’m willing to bet that would shift to a majority supporting it. All of the guys I know in Utah are fine (or happy) with what passed.

 

[ENCORE50A]

The proposal DIDNT pass. The Tech Committee (and DWR) recommendation was to remove scopes from muzzys. That DIDN’T pass. Instead the Wildlife Board went with a compromise - open sights, red dots and 1x scopes.

It’s easy to call everything “politics” when your side lost.

Bottom line from the survey was that 56% of actual muzzy hunters opposed removing scopes altogether. If you consider the views of the guys that hunt multiple weapons, 60 % of them were opposed. Let’s average those two and call it 58% of muzzy hunters in UT didn’t want to completely remove scopes. When you consider what passed in the end (allowing 1x) I’m willing to bet that would shift to a majority supporting it. All of the guys I know in Utah are fine (or happy) with what passed.

As an out of state guy, as we both are..... you seem to know everything about Utah, and of course everything else.
It politics.... period .... and of which you know nothing about. The decision was made LONG before public input, which was nothing more than a formality, just as biggamehunter78 agreed.
Do you even have a clue why they "went with a compromise"? That was also discussed LONG before public input. Its politics 101.

My side lost? I don't hunt Utah, but I support................ ALL .......... methods of muzzleloading. Period. At least I stay consistent. I don't agree with what I believe are the masses, but when questioned about scopes on your muzzleloaders, you state, "I only use for load development". Then many photos of you hunting and showing your scoped rifles in the field, all without open sights, just scopes, and the next answer is, 'I use a muzzleloader during AWH.'

You STILL want to use the survey presented ONLY by the DWR, and that is exactly what they want people to think.

 

[dioxin man]

Scopes aren't a great benefit where I hunt in southern Arkansas. 50 yards is a long shot unless you are hunting power line right of ways. A good peep sight is sufficient in good light. A scope does help my tired old eyes at dawn and dusk though.

 

[ElDiablo]

As an out of state guy, as we both are..... you seem to know everything about Utah, and of course everything else.
It politics.... period .... and of which you know nothing about. The decision was made LONG before public input, which was nothing more than a formality, just as biggamehunter78 agreed.
Do you even have a clue why they "went with a compromise"? That was also discussed LONG before public input. Its politics 101.

My side lost? I don't hunt Utah, but I support................ ALL .......... methods of muzzleloading. Period. At least I stay consistent. I don't agree with what I believe are the masses, but when questioned about scopes on your muzzleloaders, you state, "I only use for load development". Then many photos of you hunting and showing your scoped rifles in the field, all without open sights, just scopes, and the next answer is, 'I use a muzzleloader during AWH.'

You STILL want to use the survey presented ONLY by the DWR, and that is exactly what they want people to think.

Couple of sincere questions for you Encore.

Have you ever been to Utah? Have you ever muzzy hunted in Utah? Do you ever plan to hunt in Utah?

 

[ENCORE50A]

Couple of sincere questions for you Encore.

Have you ever been to Utah? Have you ever muzzy hunted in Utah? Do you ever plan to hunt in Utah?

Did you even read my post that you quoted?????

 

[ElDiablo]

Did you even read my post that you quoted?????

I did. You didn’t answer any of those questions….SMDH

You wrote, “I don’t hunt Utah.” Just looking for more specifics.

 

[biggamehunter78]

I wish I could have attended one (or all) of the RAC meetings when they had public comment to see what the real, in-room feedback was. I was still hunting in UT for the first two but I was already back home for the rest.

I think these may be on YouTube but at this point I’m not sure I want to spend the time.

 

[ENCORE50A]

As an out of state guy, as we both are..... you seem to know everything about Utah, and of course everything else.
It politics.... period .... and of which you know nothing about. The decision was made LONG before public input, which was nothing more than a formality, just as biggamehunter78 agreed.
Do you even have a clue why they "went with a compromise"? That was also discussed LONG before public input. Its politics 101.

My side lost? I don't hunt Utah, but I support................ ALL .......... methods of muzzleloading. Period. At least I stay consistent. I don't agree with what I believe are the masses, but when questioned about scopes on your muzzleloaders, you state, "I only use for load development". Then many photos of you hunting and showing your scoped rifles in the field, all without open sights, just scopes, and the next answer is, 'I use a muzzleloader during AWH.'

You STILL want to use the survey presented ONLY by the DWR, and that is exactly what they want people to think.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I wish I could have attended one (or all) of the RAC meetings when they had public comment to see what the real, in-room feedback was. I was still hunting in UT for the first two but I was already back home for the rest.

I think these may be on YouTube but at this point I’m not sure I want to spend the time.

Yes sir, they are on youtube. Very long..........

Doesn't matter now anyway. It was set in stone long before any meetings and/or public input.