Blackhorn 209??

[magnus]

Has anyone NOT shot the 250-300 SSTs or Shockwaves well, when providing it with the proper plastic sabot that fits your bore best -- when using an above minimum and below maximum powder volume -- in a 1:24 - 1:32 twist barrel -- in a overwhelmingly typical hunting yardage range of 200 yards or less?

That bullet was designed to fly straight and narrow...... period / exclamation point...... (my opinion).

Agreed they shoot tight groups......with just a little messing around to find best powder load. But problem, IMO, is for a variety of reasons they often don't perform very well on deer -- other than maybe a perfect broadside shot. I think Barnes and a variety of other bullets are much better for hunting.

 

[Anonymous]

Agree, Barnes is ML King of Deer Penetration / Performance Bullet..... Uno Numero #1. It's rare to read complaints.

 

[silentstalker]

I shot a nice mule deer a few years ago with a Barnes. That buck dropped deader than dead!

 

[silentstalker]

I forgot to post this, my Dad shot this bull last year with 100 gr. Pyrodex, and a 300 gr. SST. The shot was broadside at 30 yards. The bull stumbled about 10 steps and collapsed. The bullet was found under the hide of the far side. I have pictures of it here somwhere...

 

[silentstalker]

Here is the bullet. Weighed just over 249 grains. It seperated as most non bonded do, but was found all together in one spot under the hide.



What are the complaints with the SST on deer? They don't open up or???

 

[Busta]

Here is the bullet. Weighed just over 249 grains. It seperated as most non bonded do, but was found all together in one spot under the hide.




What are the complaints with the SST on deer? They don't open up or???

I forgot to post this, my Dad shot this bull last year with 100 gr. Pyrodex, and a 300 gr. SST. The shot was broadside at 30 yards. The bull stumbled about 10 steps and collapsed. The bullet was found under the hide of the far side. I have pictures of it here somwhere...

No complaints from me. Somewhere between 25 and 30 with the SST/Shockwave.

In my research so far, the majority (all but one) of pictures of bullets not expanding were in the red low drag sabots, and all were shot with pellets. When the saboted bullets go into the cold, the low drag sabots go from low drag to no drag. Then just add pellets, and you have a recipe for a bullet that cannot reach the velocity window it was designed to perform in. Pellets NEED a tight fitting bullet/saboted bullet to get a complete burn in the barrel.

What is ironic about all of these SST bullets that failed to expand properly is that all the bullets were recovered in the deer and all the deer were recovered relatively easily and quickly. So yes The bullets did not open/expand as designed, but IMO the pellets along with the low drag sabots are where the majority of the blame should be directed. People want easy loading sabots, and they may be borderline in warm weather, then think about what plastic does when you throw in a few hours of cold or extreme cold temperatures in the mix.

For the record, none of mine were shot with low drag sabots or pellets. ALL had evidence of expansion as witnessed by the exit holes. Only one bullet was recovered, a 200 gr Shockave variant, under the hide in the far side after passing through both shoulders. The distance was 115 yards, 100 grains of Black Mag'3. That bullet expanded as pretty as a mushroomed can be. None of the deer traveled more than 60 yards, with the majority either going down where they stood, or travelled less than 25 yards.

Still conducting research, but feel extremely confident in my above statements so far.


Great looking bull. Thanks for posting.

 

[Anonymous]

silentstalker

We can never trust the internet. Even when pics are attached, for we don't really know if altered. Anybody from a rival bullet company can bad-mouth the competition. My suggestion to all doubters is to use the SST/Shockwaves supply you have, at least until it's proven to "live".... in your harvest, that the bullet either wrongfully deformed, fell apart or didn't expand.

I have 50 200 gr SSTs to use 50/40s and I want to see for myself. Hornady sells so many of these bullets. It might be the best selling ballistic tip out there. So a complaint now & then should not be expected, for fast production anythings produce a faulty one now & then. You and I should be the judge, not someone else.

 

[sabotloader]

silentstalker

Personally, and IMO only, I would not shoot a SST or Shock Wave unless it were the bonded Shock Wave. And then I would worry about them penciling through a thin skinned deer at the closer ranges. And going one step further I would not and do not shoot any Hornady lead/copper bullet. Every Hornady that I have tested will come apart on occasion. Not always, but enough that I can not predict when. In real life when they do come apart they most often harvest the animal but I personally prefer a bullet that stays together.

Barnes copper bullets, Nosler Partitions, and Lehigh/Bloodline certainly fill that bill, but I much prefer the Lehigh/Bloodline brass bullets. All three of these bullets have the best Terminal Performance I have experienced, but I give the edge to the Lehigh/Bloodline by a decent margin.

When I was testing various bullets I would tell you of the mass produced bullets the edge would by far go to the Speer Deep Curl bullets, but these days Deep Curls are extremely hard to come by.

And again, remember this is just my personal thoughts...

 

[silentstalker]

I really appreciate all the feedback. I am currently testing the SST's, nosler BT's, and nosler Partition's for accuracy in my gun. So far the SST's are the most accurate. Our hunt is in Sept. And I am shooting loose powder.

My belief is that any of those bullets placed properly will kill a mule deer. Good luck and thanks again to each of you!

 

[Busta]

silentstalker

Personally, and IMO only, I would not shoot a SST or Shock Wave unless it were the bonded Shock Wave. And then I would worry about them penciling through a thin skinned deer at the closer ranges. And going one step further I would not and do not shoot any Hornady lead/copper bullet. Every Hornady that I have tested will come apart on occasion. Not always, but enough that I can not predict when. In real life when they do come apart they most often harvest the animal but I personally prefer a bullet that stays together.

Barnes copper bullets, Nosler Partitions, and Lehigh/Bloodline certainly fill that bill, but I much prefer the Lehigh/Bloodline brass bullets. All three of these bullets have the best Terminal Performance I have experienced, but I give the edge to the Lehigh/Bloodline by a decent margin.

When I was testing various bullets I would tell you of the mass produced bullets the edge would by far go to the Speer Deep Curl bullets, but these days Deep Curls are extremely hard to come by.

And again, remember this is just my personal thoughts...

Just curious as to when Lehigh/Bloodline started selling bullets that stays together? I thought they were all fragmenting? Guess I've been out of the loop ?

 

[sabotloader]

silentstalker

Personally, and IMO only, I would not shoot a SST or Shock Wave unless it were the bonded Shock Wave. And then I would worry about them penciling through a thin skinned deer at the closer ranges. And going one step further I would not and do not shoot any Hornady lead/copper bullet. Every Hornady that I have tested will come apart on occasion. Not always, but enough that I can not predict when. In real life when they do come apart they most often harvest the animal but I personally prefer a bullet that stays together.

Barnes copper bullets, Nosler Partitions, and Lehigh/Bloodline certainly fill that bill, but I much prefer the Lehigh/Bloodline brass bullets. All three of these bullets have the best Terminal Performance I have experienced, but I give the edge to the Lehigh/Bloodline by a decent margin.

When I was testing various bullets I would tell you of the mass produced bullets the edge would by far go to the Speer Deep Curl bullets, but these days Deep Curls are extremely hard to come by.

And again, remember this is just my personal thoughts...

Just curious as to when Lehigh/Bloodline started selling bullets that stays together? I thought they were all fragmenting? Guess I've been out of the loop ?

Glad you asked.....oddly enough they do sell a bullet that stays together and is suppose to be just as effective. It is called their XP design...

http://www.lehighdefense.com/shop/ammun ... trator-(xp)-ammunition/380-auto-90gr-xtreme-penetrator-ammunition-detail

http://www.lehighdefense.com/#

No but really Busta, you know exactly what I am talking about. - The fragments do leave the core rotating out into the vital organs causing a very traumatic shock to the animal and the core of the bullet continues on through just like a Keith Nose Conical, which I am sure you have also heard about. The animal surviving those two shocks - and having the flight factor over-ride those effects is a huge task. I really like and most often need the animal to fall where it was shot - I really like that.

The bullets are designed to pass through hide and bone without fragmenting they do spin the petals off until or if they contact a concentration of liquid. So they do not come apart passing through hide and muscle - not even bone. I have shot them through a 8" live ponderosa pine without expansion and then into a deer and the bullet work as described (not on purpose but crap happens). Wasn't meant a toughness test of the bullet but worked well for testing the effects.

This picture really doesn't do the bullet justice - but it shows what I am trying to describe. And you have to remember those two tails that you see on the top and bottom - there are actually 6 of those damaging petals reaching out into the organs. Muscle tissue not effected they do not have enough energy to move about in muscle.



1 of many shot dead where he stood and no lead copper anywhere...



Seriously if you still hunt you should try just a couple of harvests with them. They do make a difference, just as Nosler Partitions use to do for me and all the Barnes uses will tell you theirs do also.

But no matter, you continue to use what you use and I will use what I do and we both will be happy.

 

[silentstalker]

I think there are definitely two schools of thought on the subject. Bonded bullets drive deeper and are important on larger game. The non bonded have a tendency to separate but do a lot of damage as they break apart. Its seems with proper shot placement, they both get the job done.

 

[silentstalker]

So back to the O rings. How many shots can I expect to use them? One shooting session? 5 shots? One shot? From your experience, how often do you change them out?

 

[ShawnT]

Busta,

Have you ever tested Velocity Differences between 2 Pellets (Pyro or 777) against 100gn Loose of same brand?

Thanks,

 

[silentstalker]

Shawn, can you give me a recommendation on how many shots before changing out those O rings?

 

[ShawnT]

Since they are cheap, I swap mine out each time I clean the rifle.

 

[silentstalker]

Thanks. Cant wait to go try them.

 

[casper]

I've read somewhere they last around 50 shots or so. I too would just change them out every shooting session, or put a fresh one in for hunting.