Buyer beware - prbullets - Cecil Epp

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quaid

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Cecil has my money. I have nothing in return.

I ordered ~300 sabots from Cecil at prbullets on October 3. I had to order by phone, since his web store only accepts USA addresses despite his being based in Canada.

Cecil ended our call after getting my order details. There was no confirmation of the order or of the shipment, and no tracking number provided to me at that time. He didn't even give me an order total that I should expect to see charged on my credit card.

After several weeks I reached out by email asking if there was a problem with the order. At this point Cecil gave me a Canada Post tracking number which indicated the order shipped on the 3rd and was delivered on October 6. In principle, this would have been amazing service...if the sabots had arrived.

My shipment of sabots was not delivered to me. I am confident in this fact, since I have several home security cameras which recorded the Canada Post delivery on October 6 (and every other day). I can also rule out porch piracy. It's a real problem, but that didn't happen here.

My best guess at what may have gone wrong was that the shipping address had been incorrectly recorded. Cecil was uninterested in helping with this, and he told me to investigate on my own. That was hard, since I didn't initiate the shipment or pay Canada post, Cecil did. Eventually an agent from Canada Post offered to receive my name and address and then confirm whether or not it matched what was on the order. To Cecil's credit, it did match.

I initiated a service incident record with Canada Post, but this process doesn't create compensation since I didn't give Canada Post any items or money. Cecil did this.

I asked Cecil to open a case for compensation on his end and to send me a refund or to send a replacement for the order. He has indicated that he will only refund me what (if anything) he receives from Canada Post. He has also stated several times that he doesn't believe he will get compensation, or that any of this is his responsibility.

I guess that's the crux my issue with Cecil. I paid him for a product (sabots) and a service (delivery). He sub contracted the delivery service with Canada Post, and he believes that the sub contract relieved him of any responsibility to me for that service. I fundamentally disagree. Cecil owes me product and service. That's what I paid him for. Canada Post owes him service. That's what he paid them for.

I understand that businesses need to protect themselves from customers trying to scam them. Cecil hasn't asked for any of my evidence, videos or otherwise. How seriously is Cecil pursuing his claim? Did he make a claim at all? I have doubts.

Add to all of this that his demeanour is a bit like having your teeth pulled, or sand rubbed into your eyes.

Buyer beware.
 
Cecil has my money. I have nothing in return.

I ordered ~300 sabots from Cecil at prbullets on October 3. I had to order by phone, since his web store only accepts USA addresses despite his being based in Canada.

Cecil ended our call after getting my order details. There was no confirmation of the order or of the shipment, and no tracking number provided to me at that time. He didn't even give me an order total that I should expect to see charged on my credit card.

After several weeks I reached out by email asking if there was a problem with the order. At this point Cecil gave me a Canada Post tracking number which indicated the order shipped on the 3rd and was delivered on October 6. In principle, this would have been amazing service...if the sabots had arrived.

My shipment of sabots was not delivered to me. I am confident in this fact, since I have several home security cameras which recorded the Canada Post delivery on October 6 (and every other day). I can also rule out porch piracy. It's a real problem, but that didn't happen here.

My best guess at what may have gone wrong was that the shipping address had been incorrectly recorded. Cecil was uninterested in helping with this, and he told me to investigate on my own. That was hard, since I didn't initiate the shipment or pay Canada post, Cecil did. Eventually an agent from Canada Post offered to receive my name and address and then confirm whether or not it matched what was on the order. To Cecil's credit, it did match.

I initiated a service incident record with Canada Post, but this process doesn't create compensation since I didn't give Canada Post any items or money. Cecil did this.

I asked Cecil to open a case for compensation on his end and to send me a refund or to send a replacement for the order. He has indicated that he will only refund me what (if anything) he receives from Canada Post. He has also stated several times that he doesn't believe he will get compensation, or that any of this is his responsibility.

I guess that's the crux my issue with Cecil. I paid him for a product (sabots) and a service (delivery). He sub contracted the delivery service with Canada Post, and he believes that the sub contract relieved him of any responsibility to me for that service. I fundamentally disagree. Cecil owes me product and service. That's what I paid him for. Canada Post owes him service. That's what he paid them for.

I understand that businesses need to protect themselves from customers trying to scam them. Cecil hasn't asked for any of my evidence, videos or otherwise. How seriously is Cecil pursuing his claim? Did he make a claim at all? I have doubts.

Add to all of this that his demeanour is a bit like having your teeth pulled, or sand rubbed into your eyes.

Buyer beware.
WOW that sucks he sounds like a jerk off
 
I bought some items from him years back. Had to deal with him on the phone as well. He was one of the most unpleasant SOB's I ever dealt with. To put it mildly. Know it all, condescending and rude.
I would not buy another item from him, even if he was the last muzzleloading supplier on earth.
On the flip side. I also dealt with his son. One of the nicest most pleasant people I ever dealt with.
 
Any reputable business simply sends you replacements-period! Thanks for posting. That will hopefully help out anyone who might be considering making a purchase from him. I use Furys in my smokeless muzzleloaders and I have always received my bullets super fast. For my other ML's I use a few different ones that I just buy retail from places like Midway, Natchezz, ect.
 
I made the choice to post here after Cecil's negativity wore me down and I lost faith in a successful resolution. Cecil emailed me to arrange a refund several hours after I posted here. I don't know if the timing was a coincidence or not.


Now I am reflecting on this transaction.

There are several things that Cecil did well:
  • Has inventory of MMP sabots in Canada
  • Same-day shipping
  • Submitted my address correctly when shipping
There were also opportunities for improvement:
  • ecommerce website didn't allow Canadian destinations
  • Ordering by phone didn't provide order confirmation, ship confirmation, tracking number, or even an order cost total
  • Did not understand responsibility to the customer after shipping
  • Communication was unfriendly and abrupt


I would guess that many or most people submit orders to prbullet and promptly receive their order (especially if using the ecommerce store). However, I want to know that a business will support me not just with the 80% of orders that go smoothly, but also with the 20% of orders that encounter challenges.

I don't want to feel like I have to fight with a business to get their support.
 
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Wouldn’t Canada Post be able to provide the signature of whomever pick it up?
Walk
 
I bought some items from him years back. Had to deal with him on the phone as well. He was one of the most unpleasant SOB's I ever dealt with. To put it mildly. Know it all, condescending and rude.
I would not buy another item from him, even if he was the last muzzleloading supplier on earth.
Same thing here. Will never give him business again.
 
I made the choice to post here after Cecil's negativity wore me down and I lost faith in a successful resolution. Cecil emailed me to arrange a refund several hours after I posted here. I don't know if the timing was a coincidence or not.


Now I am reflecting on this transaction.

There are several things that Cecil did well:
  • Has inventory of MMP sabots in Canada
  • Same-day shipping
  • Submitted my address correctly when shipping
There were also opportunities for improvement:
  • ecommerce website didn't allow Canadian destinations
  • Ordering by phone didn't provide order confirmation, ship confirmation, tracking number, or even an order cost total
  • Did not understand responsibility to the customer after shipping
  • Communication was unfriendly and abrupt


I would guess that many or most people submit orders to prbullet and promptly receive their order (especially if using the ecommerce store). However, I want to know that a business will support me not just with the 80% of orders that go smoothly, but also with the 20% of orders that encounter challenges.

I don't want to feel like I have to fight with a business to get their support.
I’m sorry that you’re goin through all that with Cecil. To your credit for reporting the facts of the issue without bein slanderous about it. Where I live, I have shipping probs all the time, things delivered to the wrong house etc. but fortunately I’ve had better results resolving those problems. I’ve ordered a bunch of Dead Center bullets in the last 3yrs. I have not had any problems at all thankfully. I hope you get reimbursed with your money or sabots
 
Ive dealt with him once on the phone. It was not a pleasant experience. I cant believe he still claims a 45cal 1-20 twist wont shoot a sabot over 1700fps accurately. Maybe they wont shot HIS sabots accurately so its easier to avoid the truth that other sabots exist and work fine.
 
I made the choice to post here after Cecil's negativity wore me down and I lost faith in a successful resolution. Cecil emailed me to arrange a refund several hours after I posted here. I don't know if the timing was a coincidence or not.


Now I am reflecting on this transaction.

There are several things that Cecil did well:
  • Has inventory of MMP sabots in Canada
  • Same-day shipping
  • Submitted my address correctly when shipping
There were also opportunities for improvement:
  • ecommerce website didn't allow Canadian destinations
  • Ordering by phone didn't provide order confirmation, ship confirmation, tracking number, or even an order cost total
  • Did not understand responsibility to the customer after shipping
  • Communication was unfriendly and abrupt


I would guess that many or most people submit orders to prbullet and promptly receive their order (especially if using the ecommerce store). However, I want to know that a business will support me not just with the 80% of orders that go smoothly, but also with the 20% of orders that encounter challenges.

I don't want to feel like I have to fight with a business to get their support.
I haven't bought anything from Cecil but I am looking his purchasing his LMRP BP & Module conversions for my savage and Omega. I have found the website confusing because there are articles for services that are no longer offered like accurizing the Savage 10 ML II. I read about it, decided that I wanted to get the work done only to be told that he no longer does any work on the MLII's. The dial in thing is a pain too!!

I live in Canada and purchased MMP Sabots from Badger Ridge south of the border. The service was great and shipped quickly. I buy my Harvester Crush Sabots from Lawry Shooting Sports in Ontario (Lawry Shooting Sports - Clay Target Manufactures - Store )and the service was great there too!!

TBH Most of the time I prefer dealing with companies in the states just because the service is great. I need a small part for my Knight and the production manager calls me to make sure they get the parts to me. How good is that !! Same with SSK, Harvester and others. Harvester pointed me to their Canadian importer 10 minutes down the road from me.

I'm probably still going to purchase my LRMP kits from Cecil though because I like the product and he's a small business that I would prefer to support even if he is a little grumpy !!
 
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I would think twice about his Variflame for MLII. Guys that used them were less than thrilled and you need to adjust headspace exactly right or they leak like mad.
What about the Omega? does that work with variflame? Cecil was making a breach plug that used .25 or .32 auto brass and pistol primers. Cecil told me that they wouldn't ignite BH 209 but I had a conversation with a guy here who said he had no problem with ignition. Apologies for going a bit off topic !!
 
Cecil has my money. I have nothing in return.

I ordered ~300 sabots from Cecil at prbullets on October 3. I had to order by phone, since his web store only accepts USA addresses despite his being based in Canada.

Cecil ended our call after getting my order details. There was no confirmation of the order or of the shipment, and no tracking number provided to me at that time. He didn't even give me an order total that I should expect to see charged on my credit card.

After several weeks I reached out by email asking if there was a problem with the order. At this point Cecil gave me a Canada Post tracking number which indicated the order shipped on the 3rd and was delivered on October 6. In principle, this would have been amazing service...if the sabots had arrived.

My shipment of sabots was not delivered to me. I am confident in this fact, since I have several home security cameras which recorded the Canada Post delivery on October 6 (and every other day). I can also rule out porch piracy. It's a real problem, but that didn't happen here.

My best guess at what may have gone wrong was that the shipping address had been incorrectly recorded. Cecil was uninterested in helping with this, and he told me to investigate on my own. That was hard, since I didn't initiate the shipment or pay Canada post, Cecil did. Eventually an agent from Canada Post offered to receive my name and address and then confirm whether or not it matched what was on the order. To Cecil's credit, it did match.

I initiated a service incident record with Canada Post, but this process doesn't create compensation since I didn't give Canada Post any items or money. Cecil did this.

I asked Cecil to open a case for compensation on his end and to send me a refund or to send a replacement for the order. He has indicated that he will only refund me what (if anything) he receives from Canada Post. He has also stated several times that he doesn't believe he will get compensation, or that any of this is his responsibility.

I guess that's the crux my issue with Cecil. I paid him for a product (sabots) and a service (delivery). He sub contracted the delivery service with Canada Post, and he believes that the sub contract relieved him of any responsibility to me for that service. I fundamentally disagree. Cecil owes me product and service. That's what I paid him for. Canada Post owes him service. That's what he paid them for.

I understand that businesses need to protect themselves from customers trying to scam them. Cecil hasn't asked for any of my evidence, videos or otherwise. How seriously is Cecil pursuing his claim? Did he make a claim at all? I have doubts.

Add to all of this that his demeanour is a bit like having your teeth pulled, or sand rubbed into your eyes.

Buyer beware.
its a serious Pia ordering from outside the country when it goes wrong... I shot his "dead center" products in my 45 cal air rifle and 50 cal in line... I never had any problems. at all. My main problem comes from carriers here in east tn.. Fed ex has delivered packages to my house (extremely rural) clearly marked for the Mcdonalds on the interstate 10 miles from here! Also they are bad to leave packages at the end of my 200 yd drive way too.. on the ground & small ones have been overlooked several times that way, a couple had to be left i don't know where, never to be found (Amazon orders & they just send new product). My grandson witnessed one guy toss the package out of the truck next to the power pole & it rolled down the bank below it,, would been hard to find had he not saw it done!.. They have so many new drivers since so many people work at home and have virtually everything delivered now... & make plenty of mistakes that are difficult to resolve.... Good luck!! Kirk
 

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