Buyer beware - prbullets - Cecil Epp

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What about the Omega? does that work with variflame? Cecil was making a breach plug that used .25 or .32 auto brass and pistol primers. Cecil told me that they wouldn't ignite BH 209 but I had a conversation with a guy here who said he had no problem with ignition. Apologies for going a bit off topic !!
I have no firsthand experience with the variflame though I suspect that it would work a lot better with real black or substitute powders instead of smokeless like the savage. I'm pretty sure it was an omega/encore invention of his that he tried to make work in the smokeless world.
I did convert my omega to use cut down Hornet cases because 209s were leaking real bad and needed pliers to get the spent primers out. I didn't get his kit though, did it all myself. I've been mostly happy with it, he advertised this option as basically no maintinence of the primer cases but actually the Hornet cases do need to be resized after a dozen or so firings or they start to get stuck in the breech plug after firing. also they need to be kept clean to avoid sticking, soap and water, vinegar, and 0000 steel wool can all help with that. I use small rifle mag primers and couldn't light B209 reliably, usually a bit of delay, that was with a 240gr 50/40 dead centre, might have worked a bit better with a heavy bullet but I never tried again.

Also Cecil just is the way he is, never a real pleasant guy, and if your rifle or twist or caliber is not the setup he likes then double the crusty factor
 
I had this same issue with pr bullets several years ago, used the duplex dead centers in a knight disc elite. I ordered some and they didn't show up in a timely manner. After a month or so I finally contacted them and was pretty much accused of being a scammer and it wasn't their problem. Eventually, I did receive replacements, but very much Eventually. Needless to say, I don't use that product any longer
 
What would solve all this is a decent website where anyone could shop, get a receipt and confirmation of shipping. Preferably a website that doesn't have articles about services that are no longer offered. I think Michiganmuzzy is right, he does have good ideas and a ton of knowledge plus he is a small business that could do with support. He's just not that user friendly.
 
Getting old !! Now let's not go down that rabbit hole. I have a feeling that most of us on this site are getting up there eh, I certainly feel it some days. And yes I get grumpier as I'm getting on in years. Maybe not grumpier, I know what I want and I'm less tolerant. Damn It......
 
Getting old !! Now let's not go down that rabbit hole. I have a feeling that most of us on this site are getting up there eh, I certainly feel it some days. And yes I get grumpier as I'm getting on in years. Maybe not grumpier, I know what I want and I'm less tolerant. Damn It......
just threw that out there,, i'm getting old myself!!
 
Bullets were shipped as promised and not his problem, but anything he does now, would be good for public relations.
I bet you would sing a different tune if it was your money you were out of.

I live by the moto treat others as you would want to be treated. Telling your customer "sorry bout your luck" would defiantly not fall within that ideal.
 
We all have had difficulties with businesses. I have used the variflame for several years and have bought products from Cecil Epps along with having TC and CVA Breech plugs modified for the variflame and have had no difficulties in getting my products.
 
I bet you would sing a different tune if it was your money you were out of.

I live by the moto treat others as you would want to be treated. Telling your customer "sorry bout your luck" would defiantly not fall within that ideal.

"At this point Cecil gave me a Canada Post tracking number which indicated the order shipped on the 3rd and was delivered on
October 6."

What part of delivered on the 6th did you not understand? He fullfilled his obligation, anything he did after that was a freebie.
 
"At this point Cecil gave me a Canada Post tracking number which indicated the order shipped on the 3rd and was delivered on
October 6."

What part of delivered on the 6th did you not understand? He fullfilled his obligation, anything he did after that was a freebie.
You might want to read this all again. Your interpretation of events is incorrect.
Canada Post said they delivered on the 6th, and they actually did not.
 
You might want to read this all again. Your interpretation of events is incorrect.
Canada Post said they delivered on the 6th, and they actually did not.

So I send a MO with tracking to a forum member for a item, and later he says wheres the money? I have not received it, USPS tracking says he did!
Whos out the money? not me, thats why we use tracking numbers in the first place, and he did send me the part I paid for
 
Tracking numbers are not infallible. They get abused in all manner of process perversions by shipping carriers.

The entity which should be out the money is the shipping carrier, who owns the error. How does that get actioned? The recipient does not have a contract of service with the shipping carrier and cannot pursue the damages. Conversely, the supplier who paid the shipping carrier has the power to seek and pursue damages from the shipping carrier.

The recipient has paid the supplier for goods and a service. The supplier is obligated to provide the goods and the service. The supplier contracts out the service, but the supplier still owns the accountability to the recipient for that service. They assume the responsibility for working with the service contractor when things go wrong.

Perhaps this seems counter intuitive at first, but I think it will become clearer if you work through the chain of accountability.
 
Yesterday my wife asked if we had any delivered packages in the garage, on the porch, by the barn????? I looked around and didnt see any. She said the US post office sent her a notice that a package had been delivered at 1:05 pm. She called the post office in town and the person there quickly turned on her with claims we need to call the sender because the package was delivered to an address 3 miles away. So it must have been addressed improperly. My wife was so angry with the lady at the post office. My wife said just wait a day.

Dont you know it gets delivered an hour latter. Correct address on the box. Apparently the US post office feels they are infallible. So ready to defend themselves without really checking into the matter. In their behalf if you deliver millions of packages a day a few of those have to get to the wrong address. Its just statistically impossible to not make a mistake. So they need to handle these problems with a little more grace.
 
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Cecil has my money. I have nothing in return.

I ordered ~300 sabots from Cecil at prbullets on October 3. I had to order by phone, since his web store only accepts USA addresses despite his being based in Canada.

Cecil ended our call after getting my order details. There was no confirmation of the order or of the shipment, and no tracking number provided to me at that time. He didn't even give me an order total that I should expect to see charged on my credit card.

After several weeks I reached out by email asking if there was a problem with the order. At this point Cecil gave me a Canada Post tracking number which indicated the order shipped on the 3rd and was delivered on October 6. In principle, this would have been amazing service...if the sabots had arrived.

My shipment of sabots was not delivered to me. I am confident in this fact, since I have several home security cameras which recorded the Canada Post delivery on October 6 (and every other day). I can also rule out porch piracy. It's a real problem, but that didn't happen here.

My best guess at what may have gone wrong was that the shipping address had been incorrectly recorded. Cecil was uninterested in helping with this, and he told me to investigate on my own. That was hard, since I didn't initiate the shipment or pay Canada post, Cecil did. Eventually an agent from Canada Post offered to receive my name and address and then confirm whether or not it matched what was on the order. To Cecil's credit, it did match.

I initiated a service incident record with Canada Post, but this process doesn't create compensation since I didn't give Canada Post any items or money. Cecil did this.

I asked Cecil to open a case for compensation on his end and to send me a refund or to send a replacement for the order. He has indicated that he will only refund me what (if anything) he receives from Canada Post. He has also stated several times that he doesn't believe he will get compensation, or that any of this is his responsibility.

I guess that's the crux my issue with Cecil. I paid him for a product (sabots) and a service (delivery). He sub contracted the delivery service with Canada Post, and he believes that the sub contract relieved him of any responsibility to me for that service. I fundamentally disagree. Cecil owes me product and service. That's what I paid him for. Canada Post owes him service. That's what he paid them for.

I understand that businesses need to protect themselves from customers trying to scam them. Cecil hasn't asked for any of my evidence, videos or otherwise. How seriously is Cecil pursuing his claim? Did he make a claim at all? I have doubts.

Add to all of this that his demeanour is a bit like having your teeth pulled, or sand rubbed into your eyes.

Buyer beware.
Iv'e had a run in with him very recent.
Ordered a breech plug for my Brother in law's .50cal NEF huntsman. Ordered the wrong size one, was never installed. just saw right away it would not fit. I contacted him immediately to a response of "We don't take returns on ignition parts." was too hard to ship back to canada he said. So out 80.00. Ended up selling the breech plug.
I shook it off. Bought the other correct size breech plug. Was sized for zero headspace for use of WINCHESTER 209 primers. Got the plug, installed it , tried to use TWO types of winchester primers, action would not close. I can snap it shut and get it to stay locked sometimes but still not what is advertised.
When contacted and asked he stated the primers I need to use as "shorter" CCI primers! Which it's advertised as a zero headspace fit for winchester primers!
Will definitely be my last dealing, should not of ordered from him again. My mistake.
 
Iv'e had a run in with him very recent.
Ordered a breech plug for my Brother in law's .50cal NEF huntsman. Ordered the wrong size one, was never installed. just saw right away it would not fit. I contacted him immediately to a response of "We don't take returns on ignition parts." was too hard to ship back to canada he said. So out 80.00. Ended up selling the breech plug.
I shook it off. Bought the other correct size breech plug. Was sized for zero headspace for use of WINCHESTER 209 primers. Got the plug, installed it , tried to use TWO types of winchester primers, action would not close. I can snap it shut and get it to stay locked sometimes but still not what is advertised.
When contacted and asked he stated the primers I need to use as "shorter" CCI primers! Which it's advertised as a zero headspace fit for winchester primers!
Will definitely be my last dealing, should not of ordered from him again. My mistake.

I bought a breech plug for my NEF Sidekick, the Federal 209 are a bit long but worked, then tried Winchester SML209T7 these fit good,
and I am getting good groups with them also.
 
Quite the difference in heat between the Fed209s and the Winchester SML209T7's.

I wouldn't dare try that same exchange hunting in the Great Lake's Huron National Forest, where late Fall humidity levels soar.

I am jealous that things have worked out well for you. Those Winchester 777 primers do burn much cleaner. The Feds makes such a bigger mess inside and outside my T/C and Knight breechplugs.

I've dealt with the Epp family many-many times. I still sport one of their website photos as my avatar here. Never had a problem shipping, but I do agree Cecil should not have waited until a social media website like this broadcasted both his poor service response and further-exposed his Mr. Grouch personality.

All of my prbullet orders were done via the internet and Cecil's prbullet website. I never order anything over the phone these days. The #1 reason is financial information passed that way, is not as secure.
 
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I put in an order about 10 days ago. Didnt get a confirmation so inquired a few days later. Still no word. Im hoping its just the holidays but if they are off they should put an announcement somewhere.
 
I still haven't heard anything from my bullet order. Aside from the initial order I have inquired 2 more times with no reply either time. Been 3 weeks. I just checked and my credit card hasn't been charged.
 

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