Best way to properly test rifle accuracy with many types of bullets

[geneso]

Hello,
After quite some time and a very few shots I finally get to the range tomorrow to do an extensive series of testing for loads an bullets. I have a Knight disc Supreme modified by Todd Fike with a new breechblock etc. and the rifle now has a new muzzlebrake. I have a Vortex scope for testing, but will have to remove it and add more sophisticated iron sights since I live in New Mexico and state laws now says "no more scopes."

I have lead, sabots and full bore bullets and plan on cleaning after every shot. We have a concrete benchrest and plan on firing three shots per bullet at 100 yards. I will use Pyrodex Select because I have a pound for this testing, but will be using BH209 for hunting. I was told by Knight rifles that best accuracy is in the 90 grain range. I started with 70 grains weighed and discovered in data supplied me on this site that 70 grains weighed is equivalent to 100 grains volume, which surprised me. therefore, I will be shooting just a few of the 70 grains ( weighed loads) and switching to 63 grain weighed loads.
there are people on this site who know more than I certainly do in their sleep than I do awake, about muzzleloading shooting. My expertise is benchrest shooting , both short and long range and if there is a better way to go about this than I have indicated, I would like to read about it before I head to the range

Thank you,

 

[ElDiablo]

Three shot groups are too small (of a sample size) to really tell you much. But you can use them as “feelers” to see if the group size may fail to meet your expectations. In other words, if a load shoots say a 1.5” group at 100 and you’re looking for a sub MOA group then move on to a different load. Three shot groups won’t predict how well a load will shoot in the future but they may tell you how badly. Personally, I’d go up or down in several grain increments. You won’t see statistically valid differences with very small changes in charge weight (or volume). When you see a group that looks pretty good then shoot a 5-10 shot group with that load.

 

[anonymouscowherd]

If you load develop wtih one powder and hunt with another, well.... your load development isn't really load development....

Sucks when you are popping big BH charges under expensive premium performance bullets, but it is what it is.

 

[geneso]

I value your insights. I chose 3 shot groups to separate the "wheat from the chaff" so to speak. I figure I would come away with a good indicator as to which bullets this barrel likes best, whether lead,sabots, of which I have many kinds, or full bore bullets such as ELDX and Fury's. Since I am in Elk country, intially I'm prejudiced towards full bore bullets, but I will let the targets tell me which type of bullet to pursue in more advanced testing.

 

[snapbang]

I used 2 shot groups for years to get a feel. Then load three from the sweet spot and confirm. Killed me a pile of animals doing that. I wouldn't recommend it for competition but for all around hunting accuracy it works for me.

 

[Shorty]

Hello Geneso. Just curious as what u got against full bore bullets? I would think a big, say 450 grain lead bullet to bore would be a wonderful thing for elk?

 

[txhunter58]

I want to emphasize what is stated above: your testing will only apply to pyrodex. Just like using different bullets, changing powder makes a big difference too. So don’t expect the bullet that shoots the best with pyrodex to be the most accurate with BH 209. It might give you a rough idea but you won’t know until you use BH. As expensive as bullets are, I would personally either test and hunt with pyrodex, or test and hunt with BH

And I don’t start at 100 yards. I start at 25 yrds to reduce shooter error. The ones that make the cut get moved back to 50 and they the best of those go to 100

Then, as stated above, when I find the one that seems to be the best, I try different amounts of powder for that load, in 5 gr increments, above and below your test powder amounts

 

[ElDiablo]

I want to emphasize what is stated above: your testing will only apply to pyrodex. Just like using different bullets, changing powder makes a big difference too. So don’t expect the bullet that shoots the best with pyrodex to be the most accurate with BH 209. It might give you a rough idea but you won’t know until you use BH. As expensive as bullets are, I would personally either test and hunt with pyrodex, or test and hunt with BH

And I don’t start at 100 yards. I start at 25 yrds to reduce shooter error. The ones that make the cut get moved back to 50 and they the best of those go to 100

Then, as stated above, when I find the one that seems to be the best, I try different amounts of powder for that load, in 5 gr increments, above and below your test powder amounts

This!

 

[MrTom]

If I am shooting in a new scope I start at 25 yards and three shots, per adjustment and I am using a LARGE target format.... 24"X24". I see way too many people try to sight in at 25 and not be able to figure out where the bullets are going because they haven't bore sighted in the least and are completely missing a paper plate. Once I have things shooting "on" at 25 I move the target to 100 and re-shoot in three shot groups until I am on at that distance. Then I begin pulling group size together and playing with charge sizes and bullet combos but using 10 shots as my benchmark..

Once I get a gun shooting as tight as I feel I can get it using a specific combination of powder charge, powder type, bullet, sabot and primer, it stays there..... meaning I do not mess with scope settings. I may shoot other combinations but simply let the bullet group fall where it may on the target. If I come up with some other load that has a better group history, I can re-adjust the scope to get it zeroed very quickly if I intend to keep that load and shoot it while hunting.

I see a lot of people trying to shoot six loads or kinds of ammo and trying to re-zero the guns with each change and basically waste a half a day and end up bruised. Getting a gun to hit a bull with a 2" group at 100 yards doesn't, or shouldn't, take more than ten or twelve rounds. Getting that 2" group to shoot an inch at the 100 yards can take some time and tinkering with charges, bullets....yada, yada, yada. That's where letting the bullets print where they hit the target comes in. That 10 shot group is still a ten shot group regardless of where on the paper its hitting. Getting that small group back to zero at 100 is the easy part.

 

[geneso]

Thanks for your wide ranging appraisals and techniques. When the weather warms up this morning I look forward to starting these tests. Oh, I have no prejudice against full bore bullets. This weapon will be used for Antelope, Mule deer and Elk.

Thanks again,

G

 

[txhunter58]

Reread Mr Tom’s post. Make a few adjustments to be sure gun is shooting close to bullseye

But after that do NOT adjust the scope for the rest of the day. Until you find the load you want to zero.

 

[txhunter58]

Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with shooting and hunting with pyrodex. It’s a good, consistent, and accurate powder for hunting. I know a guy who killed an elk at 275 yrds with pyrodex using open sights! Pyrodex is plenty accurate for hunting distances using open sights.

Just be sure and clean up your barrel the same day you shoot and you won’t have any problems.

 

[geneso]

Well, I went to the range today, fired the shot at 100 and it was at 12:00, four inches high from aim, this was with the Hornady Full bore ELDX bullet.
I cleaned the bore with two passes, replaced the breechplug after greasing the threads and started to load. A muzzlebrake had been added. It was difficult to seat the bullet. I managed with the range rod to finally get it into the barrel and pushed it down to run into firm opposition.. I placed the primer into the modified bolt and tried to fire. Nothing happened. I looked at everything once again, replaced the primer and tried to fire again, with the same result. So, here I am a quarter state away from the gunsmith and unlike any other problem at my range I have no idea as to what it wrong. The single shot I fired left me with the impression this rifle and its modification may be very accurate, but I have tons to learn about field work with this weapon.

 

[ElDiablo]

Specifics? What type of powder? What type primers? Two cleaning passes with what? “Nothing happened” as in the primer didn’t go off?

 

[txhunter58]

1) what do you mean you cleaned with 2 passes. Please tell us exactly what you did

2)why did you replace the breechplug?You should not have to do that until after you shoot all afternoon. I would quit muzzleloading if I had to pull the breechplug after every shot.

3). Did the 2nd and 3rd primers go off?

If I am reading your post right, I suspect you got grease in front of the breechplug and that gummed up the works.

I never use grease any more. Just plain old teflon tape. And when I did use grease, I popped 2-3 caps before loading it again to be sure I burned up the grease before loading it again.

 

[geneso]

I used Pyrodex Select 70 grains by weight, which I am told is 100 grains volume. I used the recommended Federal 209A in the modified bolt. I used standard 50 caliber cotton patches. I used spit, as recommended on the first patch and a clean second cloth patch with my range rod, which has been extended due to the muzzlebrake we had added. I took out the tube provided by Mr. Fike that is threaded into the breechplug threads when cleaning. I added a little bit of grease to the breechplug and then spun it back into place. I use a 7/16 thinwall deepwell socket with a socket extension and rachet , which goes quicker than doing it by hand rotation. I used the funnel provided with the muzzlebrake to pour in the powder. Getting the bullet into the muzzle was more of a cheallenge than any other bullet I have loaded to this time. I pushed the bullet down to firm resistance. I added the Federal 209A primer into the fixture Mr. Fike added to the bolt. I closed the bolt. when I pulled the trigger I felt the release of the sear, but nothing showed on the primer as to the firing pin striking it. I recocked the bolt and fired it again with the same result. Mr. Fike has given me specific instructions as to how to go through the process once again and I shall be doing that tomorrow. Since this is such a relatively simple process, it is confusing to me as to why the rifle will not fire. If I ca get it to work tomorrow I shall report it.

 

[jsteurrys]

Did you have the secondary safety backed all the way out? I may have missed this in the above posts.

What modifications did Mr. Fike make to the gun other than the muzzlebreak?

 

[txhunter58]

So, in short, your firing pin did not strike the primers and they didn’t go off. As Jsteurrys mentions, possibly secondary safety. Other than that, not sure.

As far as the bullet being hard to load. Pyrodex is a pretty dirty powder. Spit was fine to use for the for the first patch. But I use the spit patch twice. Run it down, flip it over, run it down again. Then use a clean patch once, flip it and down one more time. So the equivalent of 4 patches while actually only using 2. In my experience makes the bullet a little easier to load. But there will be more resistance than the first time.

 

[geneso]

OK, I will be going to the range today and we shall see if the problem persists. I am not afraid to patch a few more times if that will help. I had reloaded this rifle for the first four times before when sighting it in. This was before we installed the muzzlebrake. This first time thereafter was a real challenge. I know we are now going to have to lengthen the device that seat the bullet in the muzzle, due to the muzzlebrake length.

 

[txhunter58]

Have you figured out your issue with primers not firing?