Elk bullets at the range

[jeff223]

I would like to see my son shoot something other than a Power Belt but its up to him.I will be talking to him today and will bring this bullet thing up again.I looked at the Power Belt web site and the 444 grain flat nose might by the ticket for him.

I will let everyone know the outcome.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Question for some of you that do hunt in the western states that don't allow sabots. Would it be legal to shoot a Jacketed Bullet or a solid copper bullet Sabotless? Such as Knurled bullets and maybe use a wad or sub base under them? Seems like it would.

In Colorado you can use any full bore bullet in .50 and larger for elk. No matter what the construction is.

 

[sabotloader]

Question for some of you that do hunt in the western states that don't allow sabots. Would it be legal to shoot a Jacketed Bullet or a solid copper bullet Sabotless? Such as Knurled bullets and maybe use a wad or sub base under them? Seems like it would.

During rifle season these combinations would be fine. During ML season the bullet restrictions get a little more restrictive. Idaho and Oregon - full bore lead conicals only - Washington sabots are legal.

 

[Al-53]

I am not from out in those areas but have a question...does it have to be a .50 full bore bullet..or can you use a 45 with a full bore bullet also...

A friend of mine went on a elk hunt a few years ago...and he was telling me the structure of an elk was nothing like our deer...the hide was thick and bones were massive...he has a leg bone from it..its like a baseball bat..lol...he is going to make something from it...

 

[Muley Hunter]

In Colorado it has to be at least a .50 cal for elk. A rather dumb law. Since when won't a 300gr .45 bullet not kill an elk. ( as long as it's not a PB)

 

[Al-53]

Thanks Pete....i was just wondering if it could be used..and yes a 300grn .45 will drop one quick...

 

[GM54-120]

Many states require a 50cal for elk but a few do allow 45s. A sabotless 45cal especially the big conicals are absolute hammers in terms of penetration. Many of the 45cal MLs easily surpass 45/70 ballistics in many CF rifles. I can easily match or exceed the performance of factory 325gr FTX lever ammo with mine even using BH209 and not going over Westerns recommended max.

 

[Muley Hunter]

You want to hear another silly Colorado law?

For hunting deer you can use down to a .40 cal in muzzleloader season. However, it has a minimum weight of 170gr. You don't get to 170gr with a PRB until you get to a .50 cal. My new gun is a Kentucky style gun in .45. A PRB in .45 is 128gr, and not legal for muzzy season. I'm forced to use a conical. Which I won't do. The gun is made for a PRB, and that's all i'll shoot in it. The .45 PRB has been killing deer for centuries with no problem.

I got to thinking about it, and know if you shoot a muzzleloader in the rifle seasons the muzzleloader restrictions are lifted. I knew that meant the use of sabots, scope etc are legal to use in rifle season. What about the 170gr minimum for deer? I called the DOW up , and asked them if I can shoot a PRB in my .45 muzzleloader in rifle season. The guy had no answer, and had to go check with the firearms department. He came back in 10 minutes. They must have been talking it over. He said it would be legal.

The muzzleloader season is in mid Sept, and the rifle seasons start in Oct. So, I asked the guy.......So, the .45 PRB that won't work in Sept works ok in Oct? All I got was silence.

I guess i'll be hunting for a buck in Oct. The PRB works better then.

 

[Al-53]

from some of your posts and other from that area..you have some screwy laws...can use in one season but not the other...I guess we all have some type of screwy law...we can not hunt sunday..but now they are going to let bow hunting on sunday...but no firearms....I am hoping they allow muzzies on sunday also...

 

[jeff223]

Son is going to try some Power Belt 444 grain flat nose bullets very soon and I am glad of that

 

[txhunter58]

Some (if not most states) do allow sabotless jacketed bullets. Utah for example does not IIRC. I think they require a all lead bullet during the ML season.

Not true, Utah allows sabots and jacketed bullets. Know of people using barnes all copper saboted bullets there too.

I like your recommendation for the 444 flat point. It will pencil through if you don't hit a bone, but should do the job.

Bottom line: he doesn't have a Colorado conical gun. I spent 5 years trying to get my Omega to shoot conicals, and it did shoot powerbelts pretty well, but the more I leaned, the less I wanted to hunt with powerbelts. You may find a bullet that shoots adequate, but if he hunts Colorado for years to come, he should look into a different gun, or cut off his QLA .

 

[Muley Hunter]

Son is going to try some Power Belt 444 grain flat nose bullets very soon and I am glad of that

I still recommend the 444gr Aerotip Powerbelt. That's the one my friend used to kill 10 bulls.

The problem with the 444gr flatnose is it's a lead bullet with no coating like the Aerotip. It will lead up the bore pretty good. That's the only reason Powerbelt went to a copper coating was to prevent leading the bore. It has no other purpose. Most all lead conicals use a lube on the bullets to help prevent leading. The Powerbelt uses nothing.

 

[GM54-120]

444gr Aerotip?...Is that a discontinued?

http://powerbeltbullets.com/store.php?s ... y=Copper#l

I see a 405gr

You know, they do offer a 444gr cooper clad flat point too. SKU: AC1573

 

[Muley Hunter]

Yes, copper clad FP. I didn't realize it was a flat point. The picture looks like a HP, and I also thought it came in an AT.

So, the 444gr copper FP is the one to use. I only saw what my friend used in a speedloader. With the green base and copper coating I assumed it was an AT.

 

[GM54-120]

Some (if not most states) do allow sabotless jacketed bullets. Utah for example does not IIRC. I think they require a all lead bullet during the ML season.

Not true, Utah allows sabots and jacketed bullets. Know of people using barnes all copper saboted bullets there too.

I like your recommendation for the 444 flat point. It will pencil through if you don't hit a bone, but should do the job.

Bottom line: he doesn't have a Colorado conical gun. I spent 5 years trying to get my Omega to shoot conicals, and it did shoot powerbelts pretty well, but the more I leaned, the less I wanted to hunt with powerbelts. You may find a bullet that shoots adequate, but if he hunts Colorado for years to come, he should look into a different gun, or cut off his QLA .

My mistake, it was Montana and Idaho i should have used as examples.

 

[GM54-120]

Yes, copper clad FP. I didn't realize it was a flat point. The picture looks like a HP, and I also thought it came in an AT.

So, the 444gr copper FP is the one to use. I only saw what my friend used in a speedloader. With the green base and copper coating I assumed it was an AT.

I would have some expansion concerns about a copper clad flat point but ive never shot them. High enough fps at impact might help but boy will those kick the snot out of you with 100gr+ loads of BH209.

The picture does look like a HP. I assume they are just using a generic picture for several weights of FPs and HPs.

I still think its a dirty shame so many states require 50cal for elk. A .451 460gr should do the job quite well. It seems to me a minimum weight is far better than minimum caliber or at least a minimum weight for the 45s.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I agree that min weight makes more sense. Colorado seems to think a .45 cal bullet is small??

 

[edmehlig]

I agree that min weight makes more sense. Colorado seems to think a .45 cal bullet is small??

Agree a 45 cal 460 or 465gr conical would be enough to anchor any Elk on this planet.

 

[Al-53]

It is a shame with some of these laws...this is modern times and most rules were written many years ago...the funny thing is..you can use them in one season and not the other season....makes no sense ..do the .45 kill better during rifle season than in muzzy season...our fore fathers did well putting meat on the table with them...I guess with all the rules some states have its job security for the wardens...

 

[jeff223]

Maybe the 444 grain Power Belt flat nose will not expand at all on an elk?