Lets talk about TC Shock Waves

[Al-53]

Myself..I like the harvester sabots over the MMP...i found the bottom cup sides are long and they fray ..finding them after been shoot shows lots of small tears in the cup where as the harvesters dont have any...Dave has a pic on Jon's forum showing the 2 side by side shots...the polymer plastic in the harvester seems like it has a lube built in it so they load tight and easy...I had to struggle a few time with the MMP...we were trying some .458 bullets that came with the orange MMP sabots and they were eratic on the target..when switched over to the Harv sabot the printed nice on the target...and they loaded way easier than the orange one..you had to stand on the rod to seat the bullet..

 

[Muley Hunter]

GM.......Sounds good for deer, but i'm hunting a buck and a bull during the same season this year. I need a bullet that works for both.

I have faith the 250gr Barnes will kill an elk if put through both lungs. I'm sure there are others.


Sorry to the OP. This has gotten a bit off topic.

 

[sabotloader]

I have no reason to change the Barnes sabots. They fit tight, and I can still load after 10 shots with no swabbing. My concern is if I try the Bloodlines what would be the best sabot to use? I guess the ones it comes with will work.

My bore is smooth and accurate. I'm not messing with JB on it.

'The sabots supplied with Bloodlines and Barnes are contract MMP sabots. So it really depends on which of the MMP's they are using. Bloodlines for a 452 bullet would be HPH-24 sabots and I assume the Barnes with a 451 would be the same thing unless they are using the 3 petal sabots.

 

[Muley Hunter]

What's your opinion Mike? Do you think the Bloodline will equal, or even out perform a Barnes?

 

[ENCORE50A]

Is the bloodline designed to fragment those front petals inside the cavity?

 

[Muley Hunter]

Yes, I know that much about them. So you have two different theory's in bullet construction. One throws it's petals, and the other retains all it's weight.

Which one is more effective?

 

[sabotloader]

Is the bloodline designed to fragment those front petals inside the cavity?

I am not sure I understand your question - but the operation of the Bloodline only occurs when it hits fluids - then the petals open and break off when they reach 40* after they break off they spin outward into the surrounding vital organs - perforating the organ adding to the damage the hydrostatic of the bullet passing through causes. The petals are so light they do not carry much energy so when they hit meat they loose what energy they have very quickly so they do not penetrate very far at all.

After the petals come off the body and the main weight of the bullet with it now very sharp nose continues and most often exits the animal on the other side.

 

[sabotloader]

What's your opinion Mike? Do you think the Bloodline will equal, or even out perform a Barnes?

Pete, I have already proven to myself that the Bloodline will provide better Terminal Performance and Penetration than either the Barnes bullets and my past favorites the Nosler Partitions.

The brass bullets that Lehigh makes can not be made in pistol calibers because they will penetrate body vests - so Lehigh makes the same bullet but they make it of a Copper with is allowed by the ATF because copper will deform before penetrating body armor.

That is just my opinion though and everybody gets their own opinion. I could show some real good examples but I am sure you have already seen them.

 

[sabotloader]

Yes, I know that much about them. So you have two different theory's in bullet construction. One throws it's petals, and the other retains all it's weight.

Which one is more effective?

The pellets weigh about 6 grains each so subtract 36 grains from the weight of the Bloodline. But, that has no real detrimental on the bullet core. Because it is made of brass and will not deform it continues on through the animal with sustained velocity creating Hydrostatic Shock as it passes and the nose continues cutting all the way through.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Both are interesting designs.

The Barnes has sharp petals that spin their way through the game leaving a large wound channel.

The bloodline you explained Mike.

 

[sabotloader]

Both are interesting designs.

The Barnes has sharp petals that spin their way through the game leaving a large wound channel.

The bloodline you explained Mike.

The Barnes does create a larger EXIT wound than does the Bloodline - that is a given but the wound channel created buy the Bloodline is larger because of the pellets spinning off in a 360* radiating pattern.

In this picture you can see the permanent would channel created by both bullets and it shows the spin off of the Bloodline petals. Initially the wound channel is even larger as the bullet and hydrostatic shock is occurring but once the bullet passes and the fluid pressure return - then you have the permanent would channel.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Both are interesting designs.

The Barnes has sharp petals that spin their way through the game leaving a large wound channel.

The bloodline you explained Mike.

The Barnes does create a larger EXIT wound than does the Bloodline - that is a given but the wound channel created buy the Bloodline is larger because of the pellets spinning off in a 360* radiating pattern.

In this picture you can see the permanent would channel created by both bullets and it shows the spin off of the Bloodline petals. Initially the wound channel is even larger as the bullet and hydrostatic shock is occurring but once the bullet passes and the fluid pressure return - then you have the permanent would channel.

So the Barnes does create a larger exit wound and if the comparison photo shows the Bloodline vs a Barnes, I'm thinking a couple things. One the entrance channel in the medium appears larger with the Barnes (a good thing). They both traveled nearly identical distances. The Bloodline sends the petals in different directions which can cause more internal damage. It also appears, that with the petals dispersing in different directions, they could end up in the paunch and intestines, causing a mess (gut shot).

 

[sqezer]

With that said, a little water or snow and the inside is cleaned out, even if it hits an intestine or stomach and field dress correctly the diaphragm separates the organs from the stomach, I would rather have the pedal peel off and cut whatever they hit than not. More blood lose is a good thing, animal is dispatched quicker.

 

[ENCORE50A]

With that said, a little water or snow and the inside is cleaned out, even if it hits an intestine or stomach and field dress correctly the diaphragm separates the organs from the stomach, I would rather have the pedal peel off and cut whatever they hit than not. More blood lose is a good thing, animal is dispatched quicker.

Water and/or snow isn't always available. Not sure what you mean about the diaphragm, other than yes, it separates the heart and lungs from the paunch and intestines, which are all removed by proper field dressing. Still, petals flying through the diaphragm into the paunch and intestines IMO is not desirable. I do not want stomach or intestinal matter unnecessarily spread throughout the cavity. I honestly don't know anyone else that does either.

 

[sqezer]

I do see your point, my question would be at 6 gr. will they travel that far, I have only taken 2 deer with the Bloodline, both were head shots, the impact from the Bloodline broke both there necks, if someone has pictures of the Bloodline or the Barns after entering a chest cavity would be nice. I do know that BOTH are great bullets. :yeah: I see we got off track from the TC SHOCK WAVE TOPIC.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I do see your point, my question would be at 6 gr. will they travel that far, I have only taken 2 deer with the Bloodline, both were head shots, the impact from the Bloodline broke both there necks, if someone has pictures of the Bloodline or the Barns after entering a chest cavity would be nice. I do know that BOTH are great bullets. :yeah: I see we got off track from the TC SHOCK WAVE TOPIC.

Yes we have gotten off track on the Shock Waves but, its all good information shared too.

Barnes 250gr TMZ bullet - T/C Pro Hunter - 75grs weighed of BH209 - Range............ 200 yards. Whitetail made it 20yds.

 

[ronlaughlin]

....... I do not want stomach or intestinal matter unnecessarily spread throughout the cavity. I honestly don't know anyone else that does either.

Well, i confess......... stomach or intestinal matter disgusts me. The smell i hate. Yes, a gut shot animal is disgusting! After my first experience, when ever i have been close to a gut shot animal, my first thought has always been to leave it for the coyotes.

Months later when i eat the gut shot critter, i can taste it, and i wonder why i brought it home.

The thought of a gut shot, is what discourages me from taking long shots at animals, and why my long shots are at gongs, or milk jugs, or pop cans.

However, it seems to me the tiny bit of offal resulting from one of them flying petals, wouldn't matter much.

IMHO, there are better bullets than Shockwaves. The Deep Curl is a better bullet, but that is moot, as they are not available. What to do.... What to do..... IMHO one bullet that is available, and is better is the Nosler Partition. Wow, one really really needs to see the tissue destruction, and penetration, this bullet provides. :wink:

 

[Muley Hunter]

With that said, a little water or snow and the inside is cleaned out, even if it hits an intestine or stomach and field dress correctly the diaphragm separates the organs from the stomach, I would rather have the pedal peel off and cut whatever they hit than not. More blood lose is a good thing, animal is dispatched quicker.

I prefer to not have any damage to the guts. I use the gutless method to skin and quarter out animals. I find it faster and cleaner. That's why I like bullets that stay together, and just bore a big hole through the lungs. No meat loss, and reliable kills.

 

[sqezer]

I agree also,, I hate the thoughts of a gut shot animal.

 

[sabotloader]

Encore, I have shot several animals with different Bloodlines and so far... I have only had one incident where the bullet or pieces of the bullet made it to the stomach/intestine area and that was my own fault for taking a near frontal shot. The animal was quartering down to me. the bullet entered the chest into the chest cavity once in the cavity the bullet caught liquid and the petals opened and came off. All of the petals remained in the chest cavity with one of them punching the spinal column and the other pretty much wiping out the heart and lungs. The only thing that made it through the diaphragm was the bullet itself. The diaphragm is tough tissue and it would be difficult for a pellet to have enough energy to punch through and continue on into the paunch area.

In theory if a Lehigh/Bloodline were shot into the rear of the chest cavity adjacent to the diaphragm there is a distinct possibility that petals would enter the diaphragm and possible penetrate it - they would probably loose most of their energy in the process of getting through would not be able to do much more.

If a Lehigh/Bloodline were shot into the paunch area it would create quite a mess in that case.

There still remains a possibility that some collateral damage to the paunch could happen but I think it is a pretty low percentage.

The flying pellets have been one of the major concerns of hunters that think about using the Bloodline. I can only address myself, but after using them for several years now, I can only say they are no longer a concern of mine. They do their job just fine ifn you do your job.