Primer impact on cleanliness and bullet performance?

[Windyhills]

The primers I started with based on advice of Traditions folks who made my rifle aren't made anymore.

I've had pretty good results with standard smackdowns and 777 pellets but want to start experimenting on paper a bit more--plus I wand to find a non-tox load that works and I haven't had great results with the Barnes TEZ's at least not as good as the smackdowns (which I think are essentially the same as hornady's).

In talking with folks they said part of the issue might be my primer---remington kleanbore MZ's--and that a magnum primer might produce better results and leave less fouling. I want to try some white hots too as getting a lot of opiniones people like them better than 777's. My combo hasn't been too bad the fit is tight and a few rounds at the range and it gets tough to load without cleaning. So in essence I have a lot of new combinations to try out. Finding the most accurate combo is the main goal but if I can it with less fouling and not have to clean as often I am all for that too!

Well turns out I already have a bunch of old Federal 209A's for my starter gun I use for dog training. They are pretty loud in that pistol! From what I understand even if they are old (some might be 8 years or so old) there's no issue with their age and that designation implies a hotter primer than the remingtons I have, right?

Don't see the need to try others if the federals I already have should be a good option to try next.

Oh and to head off any suggestions, I know and might try loose powder too, blackhorn if I go that route--just not sure if I'll have the time for all of what I'd like to do, the range I use is an hour away and its starting to get cold here.

Thanks for any input though!

Thanks for any input!

 

[ElDiablo]

Sounds as though you’re using a Traditions rifle. Which one?

Maybe try the Fed 209As since you have them but they are significantly hotter than your Rems and will likely give you more fouling not less. I’d go the other way and try a weaker 209 (that is the whole reason we now have weaker “muzzy” 209s). When everyone went to 777 back in the day, the crud ring was terrible with standard/mag 209s. I’d try the Federal muzzy 209s or something easy to find like a Cheddite. In my experience, #11 caps give me little to no crud ring with 777.

But (you knew you’d get this advice) if you really want to improver your load I’d go with loose 777 or better yet, Bh209. I’m not a fan of any kind of pellets.

 

[Travis299]

I have found from recommendations on this and other forums that using the O-Ring in the primer pocket stops blowback which can foul the firing pin assembly. Pic of a fired and unfired 209 primer with using the O-Ring.

 

[Windyhills]

Thanks all. I have the traditions vortek strikerfire with the removable breech plug. I am not understanding the primer O ring thing. The primers are a decently tight fit in my breech plug now, I can remove them with my fingernails but they don't fall out before or after firing from gravity. Are you saying I can pick up an o ring to slide into the breech plug primer hole? I can see that tightening things up but wonder do you need a tool to remove them after firing then and does the o ring stay in when you remove? Reloading in a hurry might be a pan if that O ring falls out I think....

Edit--my gun is not the newer ones with VAPR twist (whatever that is!) and it's the backcountry version, main difference being 26 inch barrel.

 

[ElDiablo]

Are you saying I can pick up an o ring to slide into the breech plug primer hole? I can see that tightening things up but wonder do you need a tool to remove them after firing then and does the o ring stay in when you remove? Reloading in a hurry might be a pan if that O ring falls out I think....

Yeah, the o-ring trick can fix primer blow-by. The small o-ring stays in the bottom of the primer pocket and helps seal it up. I’m my rifles an o-ring actually helps pop the 209 out when you open the action. Won’t address your bore fouling issues though.

 

[Williamtell]

Thanks all. I have the traditions vortek strikerfire with the removable breech plug. I am not understanding the primer O ring thing. The primers are a decently tight fit in my breech plug now, I can remove them with my fingernails but they don't fall out before or after firing from gravity. Are you saying I can pick up an o ring to slide into the breech plug primer hole? I can see that tightening things up but wonder do you need a tool to remove them after firing then and does the o ring stay in when you remove? Reloading in a hurry might be a pan if that O ring falls out I think....

Edit--my gun is not the newer ones with VAPR twist (whatever that is!) and it's the backcountry version, main difference being 26 inch barrel.

I have the Traditions VorteK Strikefire and am using the O-rings. No issues removing the primer with fingernail after firing and there's no blowback at all now.

 

[snapbang]

But (you knew you’d get this advice) if you really want to improver your load I’d go with loose 777 or better yet, Bh209. I’m not a fan of any kind of pellets.

x2

With the pellets or sticks you have 1-2 options to try for powder load. With loose you have 40-50. If we took a poll Ill bet most of us are shooting between 70-90 grains in our 50 calibers. You cant get 70-90 grains using pellets or sticks. Try loose. It will be cheaper and more accurate in the long run.

For T7 a weaker primer is a cleaner primer. I have several plungers and never a failure. Pop 2-3 primers and run a clean patch down before loading to hunt. I only went to musket caps cause I found a store that has stacks on the shelf and has for years. Or I would be using #11.

 

[Travis299]

Thanks all. I have the traditions vortek strikerfire with the removable breech plug. I am not understanding the primer O ring thing. The primers are a decently tight fit in my breech plug now, I can remove them with my fingernails but they don't fall out before or after firing from gravity. Are you saying I can pick up an o ring to slide into the breech plug primer hole? I can see that tightening things up but wonder do you need a tool to remove them after firing then and does the o ring stay in when you remove? Reloading in a hurry might be a pan if that O ring falls out I think....

Edit--my gun is not the newer ones with VAPR twist (whatever that is!) and it's the backcountry version, main difference being 26 inch barrel.

CVA BP Rifle primer blowback problem.



IMO, when the primer is fired there is a lot of resistance or back pressure on the primer ignited hot gas caused by the small size of the fire/flame hole, .028” to .033”. This resistance/pressure means that it is imperative that the primer is sealed into the primer pocket to prevent the hot gas from escaping back around the primer and exciting to the rear, blowback. This blowback can foul the firing pin assembly in addition to the fact that it is wasted hot gas that is intended to ignite the powder charge. The sealing of the primer is also made more difficult because all primers are NOT the same length. If the fired primer has black carbon/soot on the sides of the primer than this is an indication of the blowback problem. I have found, from recommendations on BP forums, that using the rubber O-Ring in the primer pocket that the blowback problem is solved for whichever primer I am using. The O-Ring will last for 10/20 shots and you get 100 O-Rings for about $5. This is the site for the O-Ring.

McMaster-Carr

This O-Ring can be seated into the base of the primer pocket using a primer to push the O-Ring in. When loading the primer into the BP rifle, point the open action down while inserting the primer and then close the action with a firm snap. Also check that the firing pin bushing is flush with the face of the receiver with no indentation or protrusion. This will insure that the action will open/close without any problems.