New Powders for easy cleaning

[GM54-120]

Your Knight has one of the best plugs for BH209 reliability. I haven't had a hang fire or fail to fire yet in at least 5 Knight DISC based rifles including 45cal, 50cal and 54cal with bare primer and over 12 bottles of BH209. The vast majority of these shots were with a standard Win209 primer.

Straight Ballistol works ok for cleaning BH209. Mixed with water Ballistol works ok for other subs like Triple7....If you like it, keep using it.

 

[Muley Hunter]

The price of BH is worth it to not get a crud ring. All other powders including real BP get crud rings to some degree. Some much more than others, but it's always there. I've gotten ramrods stuck in the bore while in the field when swabbing with every powder but BH.

 

[Smyrnagc]

The price of BH is worth it to not get a crud ring. All other powders including real BP get crud rings to some degree. Some much more than others, but it's always there. I've gotten ramrods stuck in the bore while in the field when swabbing with every powder but BH.

EXACTLY!!! Not having to deal with the crud ring has been a great relief for me.

 

[Anonymous]

The price of BH is worth it to not get a crud ring. All other powders including real BP get crud rings to some degree. Some much more than others, but it's always there. I've gotten ramrods stuck in the bore while in the field when swabbing with every powder but BH.

That bottled spit you were using on those stuck ramrod patches, had a product recall attached. :lol:

All my crud rings with blackpowder and Pyrodex Select were more manageable than 777 powder. The burnt powder is a wee-bit softer. The #1 reason for me quitting 777 was frozen breechplugs. Teflon tape never worked for me and no more sloppy grease to clean inside my barrel's breechplug area...... and I'm loving it. Teflon works great with Pyro and Black.

I'll never return to 777, but I may someday return to Blackhorn, depending on my future finances.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Nobody whines about the price of BH more than me, but I still suck it up and buy it. Swabbing should just be done at home to clean it. Not while shooting. This is for inlines.

Now, if we're talking about sidelocks then by all means use BP, and swab your life away. It's just part of it.

 

[Anonymous]

I swab Blackhorn after every two shots. No product recall notice thou,. not when the cotton patch is bone dry.

I mirror/duplicate my range visits to how I hunt....... expecting two shots sometimes. Why?..... because I'm old and shoot offhand. I shake a little too.... :lol:

 

[sabotloader]

Nobody whines about the price of BH more than me, but I still suck it up and buy it. Swabbing should just be done at home to clean it. Not while shooting. This is for inlines.

Now, if we're talking about sidelocks then by all means use BP, and swab your life away. It's just part of it.

me too... but I do not buy it - I can manage what little crud I get easily

 

[bestill]

Im a blackhorn shooter.
I hear much about blackhorn cost.
Seems equal load of 100 grain load
Swiss would cost43 cents a shot and blackhorn64 cents per shot .
For me blackhorn is well worth21 cents more per shot.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I wish I could shoot BH209. I wouldn't complain in the least about the cost per shot and I would certainly buy it in 5# containers. I wouldn't complain about it being non-hydroscopic, or its unique ability to be converted and loaded by weight, or its advantage in velocity when using heavier charges and/or anything else.

Every time I load propellant in my rifle, it costs me $1.68 ............ add the cost of the bullet, its $2.93 when the trigger is pulled.

And some think they have a problem with price........ :huh?:

PLEASE don't let my wife see the above figures

 

[Muley Hunter]

Nobody whines about the price of BH more than me, but I still suck it up and buy it. Swabbing should just be done at home to clean it. Not while shooting. This is for inlines.

Now, if we're talking about sidelocks then by all means use BP, and swab your life away. It's just part of it.

me too... but I do not buy it - I can manage what little crud I get easily

You get away with less crud ring with T7, because you use #11 caps. Not an option with every gun.

 

[sabotloader]

Nobody whines about the price of BH more than me, but I still suck it up and buy it. Swabbing should just be done at home to clean it. Not while shooting. This is for inlines.

Now, if we're talking about sidelocks then by all means use BP, and swab your life away. It's just part of it.

me too... but I do not buy it - I can manage what little crud I get easily

You get away with less crud ring with T7, because you use #11 caps. Not an option with every gun.

Not so - I shoot far more primers than I do caps I just do not shoot hot primers for 1 thing and I am really careful about what and how much goes in the bore.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Why do you think you don't get a crud ring with T7 using a 209 primer when everybody else does? What are you doing different to prevent a crud ring from forming?

 

[GregK]

For my modern inlines it's BH209 hands down. No swabbing, no crud ring.....EVER!

In my White with #11 ignition I shot T7-3F

Now some clarity as to why.

First I typically spend a LOT of time on the range & I burn a LOT of powder. A LOT MORE THAN THE AVERAGE PERSON!! I don't want to have to swab between shots or worry about excessive fouling or a crud ring. I may be working with 3 muzzleloaders at a time. It's consistent & it performs.

My white had a #11 ignition & that's not hot enough for Bh209. I only shot 60-80gr of T7 with 350 to 465 grains of lead. The lighter charge is all that's required & doesn't foul as badly as a heavy charge. One swab between shots & I was good to go. As for clean up the White only took slightly longer than my break actions because it has a few more pieces to disassemble. If you compare the cleaning to a Knight it's basically identical. With T7 you just have to use the right stuff when you clean & treat properly when you finish.

T7 IS more corrosive than BH209 but a properly treated barrel with a condom during hunts will not have any more issues than the BH209.

T7 loose powder does ignite easier than BH209 but BH209 does clean up a little easier with standard centerfire cleaners. It ultimately comes down to what you prefer. However, my advice would be to AVOID PELLETS at all costs.

Greg

 

[Anonymous]

Why do you think you don't get a crud ring with T7 using a 209 primer when everybody else does? What are you doing different to prevent a crud ring from forming?

That's why Mike wants all my Remington 209-4 primers. They are weak primers. But the Rems are not something you can trust in my high humidity Great Lakes region and under 40 degrees using Blackhorn. It may work when it's cold in much drier Idaho thou.

Another 'relate' with the 777 crud ring is the type of breechplug end you have. The early flat-nose Encore/Omega plugs were replaced quickly by the concave ones, to ease the crud ring, which in my findings, the difference between the two plug leaving crud was insignificant.
Then when all the complaints on the concave plug reached T/C headquarters, they shifted gears and said the crud ring would be lessened by the concave plug, if you shot 777 pellets.

If you use hot 777 loads, live in humidity and use hot primers, Mr. Crud will find the inside of your bore..... even Mike's bore.

Froze-up breechplugs and crud rings drove me away from 777. I am all black and pyro this summer. Blackhorn 209 is too expensive and too picky for me. Blackhorn won't let me use all of my bullet selection. A couple makes and models of bullets literally just fall out of the bore when shot. I don't like that at all.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I had a Wolverine for a short time, and shot T7 in it. I was using #11 caps, and still getting a crud ring. I'd like to know why Mike doesn't get one, and now he says he uses weak 209 primers too. That should give more crud ring than #11 caps, and I couldn't keep from getting a ring with #11 caps. Just wondering what he does different to avoid the ring.

As i've already said. Everything gets a ring, except BH. Even a sidelock using real BP will get heavy fouling right where the bullet/PRB was. Try swabbing with a dry patch, and that's where the patch will get stuck.

 

[sabotloader]

I had a Wolverine for a short time, and shot T7 in it. I was using #11 caps, and still getting a crud ring. I'd like to know why Mike doesn't get one, and now he says he uses weak 209 primers too. That should give more crud ring than #11 caps, and I couldn't keep from getting a ring with #11 caps. Just wondering what he does different to avoid the ring.

As i've already said. Everything gets a ring, except BH. Even a sidelock using real BP will get heavy fouling right where the bullet/PRB was. Try swabbing with a dry patch, and that's where the patch will get stuck.

In any of my percussion ML's I can shot 20-30 rounds of 110 even 120 grain loads and never have to run a patch - I do use T7-3f most of the when shooting percussion caps, it is finer burns faster and cleaner.

In the 209 rifles I can get a minor ring and most often do but it does not interfere with loading until around the fifth load. Even at that point a damp Windex patch goes right through it. At the range I do patch each shot only because that is the condition my bore will be in while hunting - I do not hunt with a spic and span barrel ever. It is always semi - clean and it could be that way all season. It is another one of those things I have learned to manage with out any problems.

I believe a lot of the 'crud ring' is caused by what you might use in the bore. For myself I do not use any oils with petroleum and/or Teflon it is a real no-no. Both of these burn and get sticky - EVEN if you run alcohol patches there is always going to be oil in the pores. If you have treated your bore with petroleum or Teflon it will take you some time to purge the barrel completely of these material unless you boil it out of the pores. Over time you get less and less effect of the 'crud ring'

Low temp primers also aid the cause immensely. There is also some indication that elevation and ambient temperature my also play a part in the whole thing.

Anyway for me, once I get the gun bore broken in the infamous 'crud ring' is not a problem. My largest problem at the range is the 'filling of the flash channel' which I do get but it is accelerated when shooting BH.

 

[Lee 9]

What I do not understand about 777 is why the company that makes it does not analyze the crud ring and come up with a solution they are losing a lot of business over it I am surprised they still make it.
I still shoot my cap locks and I use BP and Pyrodex both of which burn dirty and do not present me with a crud ring swabbing them out is not the same problem at all. I tried 777 in my cap locks and its burning rate is so fast it eats patches and I still get some crud ring but its not the main problem in the cap locks having to add a felt wad to keep it from blowing patches was the straw that broke that camels back. :evil:

 

[flounder]

One nice thing is in this country we are able to choose what powder we want to use (so far anyway). Myself, I don't mind swabbing a bit since I like to let the barrel cool off between shots anyway. My choices of powder are Swiss, Goex, and 777. I shoot dirty old Goex more than anything and since I clean my gun when I'm done, no matter what I shoot, what does it matter.
Speaking of cost, when shooting Goex, #11 caps, and my home cast bullets, my cost ends up being somewhere between 40 and 50 cents per shot.
To each their own.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree Flounder. We all have multiple excuses on why we like or dislike a powder or bullet. Only one we need to please or satisfy is ourselves.

 

[Lee 9]

These so called inconsistency don't show up on the pressure readings or on the chronograph until the bullet sabot combination is so loose that it is liable to move off the powder under hunting conditions.
That can be handled by paper patching the bullet before you put it in the sabot.
About the price, you get what you pay for. Nothing worth while is free.