New Powders for easy cleaning

[Muley Hunter]

There's a fine line between getting what you pay for, and being ripped off. If Western had some competition from another company with a similar powder, we wouldn't be paying the high prices. There isn't so we get gouged.

 

[ENCORE50A]

There's a fine line between getting what you pay for, and being ripped off. If Western had some competition from another company with a similar powder, we wouldn't be paying the high prices. There isn't so we get gouged.

Its not Western that gouging, its the distributors and retailers. THAT is where the problem lies. Hodgdon had the opportunity and chose not to. There's no shortage according to Western Powders, who states they have a whole warehouse full of BH. I could buy a case of bottles locally in the next 35 minutes, all for $32 a bottle and the place selling it is still making money per container. Its hard to accept that its Western's fault.

 

[Muley Hunter]

You think $32 for 10oz is a good deal?

 

[Anonymous]

About the price, you get what you pay for.

Wrong!
We are forced to pay for Blackhorn luxuries that some don't need or want. I like the powder because it's the hardest one to get wet. I like the powder because I use 5 patches for cleaning, instead of 15. That's it..... all the rest of the luxuries it brings, I really don't need. It sure doesn't explain paying 3.50 an ounce for it, versus 1.35 an ounce for Pyrodex RS or 1.50 an ounce for real Black or Pyrodex Select. Plus there is a negative side or two with Blackhorn, not found with the other subs or real black.

To me, the BH209 powder is worth perhaps 2.50 per ounce..... tops. It's priced about $10 per jug too much.

 

[Squeeze]

1- 5lb container fills 8, 10 oz bottles back up. thats about $28.75 figuring on the BH 5lb at ~$230 to your door.

I was slow to try BH myself for a good while. Because of the price. BUT now I have tried it, and shot quite a few pounds. I learned to like and respect it. I still have guns that shoot black, and various subs. But my elite premium guns benefit from this premium powder. They like it, so I like it. I dont shoot the $1.50- $2.00+ bullets in all my guns either. But if you want to raise the standards, or strive for the optimum..

 

[Anonymous]

1- 5lb container fills 8, 10 oz bottles back up. thats about $28.75 figuring on the BH 5lb at ~$230 to your door.

I can get discounts lower than the single jug prices I mentioned above for Pyrodex and Real Black too. That doesn't change anything.

 

[ronlaughlin]

......there is a negative side or two with Blackhorn, not found with the other subs or real black....

You know, i was thinking about this, and i actually can't think of one issue i have experienced using Blackhorn, let alone two.

 

[ENCORE50A]

You think $32 for 10oz is a good deal?

So I don't answer a question right off with another question........ YES. $32 for a bottle of BH is as good a deal as you'll find it any place. As others stated, you'll save even more money buying it in 5#.

The question: What do you pay for a bottle of BH?

Its people jacking up the price, that's the problem. How can I buy all the BH I want for $32 a bottle and live on the "tundra" as some call it, when others are paying $45 for the same bottle in a different location? You can drive a Kia, or a Corvette. Both will get you back and forth to work.

A box of T7M pellets retail goes for around $27, I get 16 shots per box. THAT makes $32 a bottle for BH an excellent bargain.

 

[ENCORE50A]

......there is a negative side or two with Blackhorn, not found with the other subs or real black....

You know, i was thinking about this, and i actually can't think of one issue i have experienced using Blackhorn, let alone two.

I agree, I'm waiting for the negative sides, short of not having the proper breech plug. I've shot thousands of round of BH and I've never had a single issue either.

 

[rangerod]

I normally shoot 100 to 110 grns bh out of my guns . But I like to shoot a lot. So I reduce powder charge to 90 grns and keep track of where I move my scope. That way when I go back to full charge I know where to move my scope. Imo nothing compares to black horn. Everything else is inferior.

 

[Anonymous]

Can't find any negatives using Blackhorn? I'm sure I'm the only one that had a loose bullet (Buffalo SSB) barely exit the barrel using Blackhorn.

Yeah right!

I finally got it on the target paper at 50 yards, using 50 grains of cornmeal as a buffer between the powder and bullet. Even special ordered MMP's thickest sabot of yesteryear, which happened to be the original sabot MMP first produced, and that didn't even work. I was surprised to see MMP still makes that original sabot from many years ago.

Want another negative?...... too much grunting to load the most accurate bullets using Blackhorn. This is a powder that desires a tight fit for beyond 100 yard shots.

Want another negative?.... Magnum loads are generally required for best accuracy with Blackhorn. I don't want to shoot 110-120-130 grains.

C'mon fellas. this ain't nothing new. Been reported here repeatedly, since I rejoined this board in December.

 

[rangerod]

Recently the local sporting goods store had a price increase to $39.99 per bottle up from $34.99. Some of the bottles on the shelf still had the old price on them. Guess which bottles I bought?

 

[Squeeze]

What tight fit? My .32 mountaineer shoots patched roundball, or even ballet style or maxi's that would fall out of the bore without the lube holding them in accurately and without a hitch. at down to 10 grn(volume) loads and as accurate as any other powder at any velocity load. I have shot 50-60 grn in a triumph with fine accuracy to 100 yard. It CANT be all about bullet fit.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Can't find any negatives using Blackhorn? I'm sure I'm the only one that had a loose bullet (Buffalo SSB) barely exit the barrel using Blackhorn.
Yeah right!
I finally got it on the target paper at 50 yards, using 50 grains of cornmeal as a buffer between the powder and bullet. Even special ordered MMP's thickest sabot of yesteryear, which happened to be the original sabot MMP first produced, and that didn't even work. I was surprised to see MMP still makes that original sabot from many years ago.
Want another negative?...... too much grunting to load the most accurate bullets using Blackhorn. This is a powder that desires a tight fit for beyond 100 yard shots.
Want another negative?.... Magnum loads are generally required for best accuracy with Blackhorn. I don't want to shoot 110-120-130 grains.

C'mon fellas. this ain't nothing new. Been reported here repeatedly, since I rejoined this board in December.

Your "loose bullet" and had the pressure of the charge blow around it instead of pushing it properly.
BH wasn't made to use cornmeal as a buffer. Its a MODERN propellant, made for MODERN IN-LINE RIFLES (although it is being used in BPCR).
Evidently you switched from one bullet (to loose) to another to tight or, with to tight a sabot/bullet combo.
Loading forces of between 35-50# is very sufficient for BH, seating a bullet consistently also important. If you're grunting or hammering down a bullet, you'd be much better off changing sabots.
There are fathers loading 50grs volume of BH for youngsters just starting out and that charge with the right bullet provides excellent accuracy to 75yds.

BH, BP or any other propellant doesn't necessarily need a maximum charge for best accuracy.

 

[rangerod]

Why use a loose fitting bullet with any powder. You wouldn't get good accuracy anyway.

 

[Muley Hunter]

You think $32 for 10oz is a good deal?

So I don't answer a question right off with another question........ YES. $32 for a bottle of BH is as good a deal as you'll find it any place. As others stated, you'll save even more money buying it in 5#.

The question: What do you pay for a bottle of BH?

Its people jacking up the price, that's the problem. How can I buy all the BH I want for $32 a bottle and live on the "tundra" as some call it, when others are paying $45 for the same bottle in a different location? You can drive a Kia, or a Corvette. Both will get you back and forth to work.

A box of T7M pellets retail goes for around $27, I get 16 shots per box. THAT makes $32 a bottle for BH an excellent bargain.

I buy from Carlos. $31 a bottle that just went up to $34. This would be fine if it was a pound like every other powder sold. The 10oz is what makes it a rip off. Buying by the 5lb jugs doesn't make it that much better. I chuckle when guys say that a 5lb jug has 8 10oz bottles. Completely brain washed by Western. They accept that 10oz is a bottle of powder. It's still just 5lbs which is 5 bottles of any other powder. You're paying almost $50 a lb.

Why should BH cost so much more than any other powder including smokeless?

I pay $12.99 for black powder, and it's a full pound.

 

[Squeeze]

Some guys like budwieser, some like a Micro-Brew. But I know better than to believe "Its just as good" Bud was OK when I was 21, But I cant even remember the last time I had one.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Can't find any negatives using Blackhorn? I'm sure I'm the only one that had a loose bullet (Buffalo SSB) barely exit the barrel using Blackhorn.

Yeah right!

I finally got it on the target paper at 50 yards, using 50 grains of cornmeal as a buffer between the powder and bullet. Even special ordered MMP's thickest sabot of yesteryear, which happened to be the original sabot MMP first produced, and that didn't even work. I was surprised to see MMP still makes that original sabot from many years ago.

Want another negative?...... too much grunting to load the most accurate bullets using Blackhorn. This is a powder that desires a tight fit for beyond 100 yard shots.

Want another negative?.... Magnum loads are generally required for best accuracy with Blackhorn. I don't want to shoot 110-120-130 grains.

C'mon fellas. this ain't nothing new. Been reported here repeatedly, since I rejoined this board in December.

Wow, you have had more trouble in 6 months than i have had in 7 years, and by far.

Here is a link to a thread where i was experimenting with loose sabot, and was able to push the ram rod down the barrel with one finger. It turned out to be accurate, and reliable even though it seemed the sabot was too loose. The first shot from a cold clean barrel even worked. The load was only 70g Blackhorn, which is nearly half the 130g you mentioned as necessary.

You should know there are different size sabots, so that one can choose the correct size for one's rifle. Me, i never strain to load any of my rifles. I know better, i guess.

C'mon fellas. this ain't nothing new. Been reported here repeatedly, since I rejoined this board in December.

Well, i try to read the forum once a day at least, and i just don't recall many posts about Blackhorn being hard to use, except yours.

There is a lot of knowledge available for neophytes on these forum, you should try to take advantage of what's here.

It is too bad you are having so much trouble shooting Blackhorn in your rifles, the vast majority of us, just have fun, perhaps too much fun, shooting our rifles.

 

[rangerod]

I have to agree with encore. The problem is with the retailers. A friend in the business who I won't name said I should hold on to my shorts because it's going to get worse. Law of supply and demand? Just the demand part. Supply part is just fine. GOUGING plain and simple.

 

[ENCORE50A]

You think $32 for 10oz is a good deal?

So I don't answer a question right off with another question........ YES. $32 for a bottle of BH is as good a deal as you'll find it any place. As others stated, you'll save even more money buying it in 5#.

The question: What do you pay for a bottle of BH?

Its people jacking up the price, that's the problem. How can I buy all the BH I want for $32 a bottle and live on the "tundra" as some call it, when others are paying $45 for the same bottle in a different location? You can drive a Kia, or a Corvette. Both will get you back and forth to work.

A box of T7M pellets retail goes for around $27, I get 16 shots per box. THAT makes $32 a bottle for BH an excellent bargain.

I buy from Carlos. $31 a bottle that just went up to $34. This would be fine if it was a pound like every other powder sold. The 10oz is what makes it a rip off. Buying by the 5lb jugs doesn't make it that much better. I chuckle when guys say that a 5lb jug has 8 10oz bottles. Completely brain washed by Western. They accept that 10oz is a bottle of powder. It's still just 5lbs which is 5 bottles of any other powder. You're paying almost $50 a lb.

Why should BH cost so much more than any other powder including smokeless?

I pay $12.99 for black powder, and it's a full pound.

There are 7,000 grains in 1# of powder. A 5# container contains 35,000 grains of powder.

A 10 ounce bottle contains 4,375 grains of powder. 8 bottles contains 35,000 grains of powder.

5# of any other powder, also equals 35,000 grains.

I concur with their math.