Round Ball Accuracy & Patch(s)

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deadwooddan

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After reading many posts I couldn't find a clear answer to what I was hoping to find. Lots of info going way back but was hoping to put something in one thread for future readers. My big question is patches and how to properly use them to get accuracy from a round ball. I've seen shooters use the daisy style patches and others just say old pair of jeans. I'm OCD and want to be able to repeat from one year to the next so purchasing in bulk or from a vendor is best. I've seen others use the seat ball and cut material technique. I could even add the use of cotton ball material as a wad.

I realize a slow twist is best but for my purposes trying the 50 cal T/C Hawkin 1:48 twist again.

Let me know your methods and success stories! Merry Christmas DWD

1) Use known good lube. Pre soak or wipe on and shoot?
2) Use best sights possible such as peep and globe style
3) Bench rest technique
4) Black powder no subs
 
I have 2 1/48" twists. One is a 50 and one a 54 cal. I also have a 33" Green Mountain Barrel in 1/66" twist. The Green Mountain is more accurate, but not by much, only cause of my eyes. I can keep my glasses on and see the target just perfect , but my sights are fuzzy. Take my glasses off and I see the sights perfect but the target is fuzzy. There is hardly a doubt the GM in 1/66" is more accurate , or I can at least say my fliers are not bad at all compared to my other 2 barrels. I jut use my own cast rounballs. I have had very slightly better accurate with my own balls. I make my own patches with Ticking Cloth , the grey lined. However, be careful. I had my wife get me some and it was grey lined on one side instead of two sides and the cloth that has grey lines on both sides were .020 thick and the single lined was .015" I have not tried the new thinner cloth yet though. I lube them lightly with lard ( no salt) I use just a block of wood for a rest, I use black powder only and mostly GOEX. In my 50 cal. I have not noticed any accuracy difference , but have not tried the Swiss with the "54" yet.
 
You bring up a good point on purchased vs. cast RBs. I've cast my own but for my purposes plan on using Hornady's. I was always under the impression that the swaged may be "better" b.c. no cavity line. Of course that was what I was once told. No real experimentation to prove yet...
 
A 1/48 twist barrel will shoot a round ball good. For mine, I find that a .018 pillow ticking patch that I lube with good ole spit works fine. The kind of powder you use is important too.
My load is 80 grains of Swiss 3f powder under a .490 ball.
I've used prelubed patches with good results but lately I've seen buying dry patches. A lot of shooters have a favorite lube recipe. Half the fun is figuring out what works best.
 
After reading many posts I couldn't find a clear answer to what I was hoping to find. Lots of info going way back but was hoping to put something in one thread for future readers. My big question is patches and how to properly use them to get accuracy from a round ball. I've seen shooters use the daisy style patches and others just say old pair of jeans. I'm OCD and want to be able to repeat from one year to the next so purchasing in bulk or from a vendor is best. I've seen others use the seat ball and cut material technique. I could even add the use of cotton ball material as a wad.

I realize a slow twist is best but for my purposes trying the 50 cal T/C Hawkin 1:48 twist again.

Let me know your methods and success stories! Merry Christmas DWD

1) Use known good lube. Pre soak or wipe on and shoot?
2) Use best sights possible such as peep and globe style
3) Bench rest technique
4) Black powder no subs

What is the answer you are looking to find Dan? There is LOTS of good info throughout the forum here, i see you have found some and using it ;)
 
Any benefits to using the daisy patch? We could start there. I wasn't aware of them until recently.
 
I’ve been using them for a while now, although I don’t shoot round ball all that much, mostly for plinking or smal game. I like them but I couldn’t prove they’re superior in any way to the round precut I’ve been using prior. Apparently they appeal to my OCD as much as anything.
 
I am not crazy about the OC Daisy Patches, I think the Cut to make the Pedal is their “Weak Llink”

0tF3qex.jpg


These were OC Daisy Patches, .015 Ticking, shot from my Little TC Patriot Pistol, The Powder Charge was a WHOPPING 25 Grains here, The barrel is only 9” inches long, And Polished to a Mirror. The OC Daisy Patches that i have tested have been JUNK, That’s my opinion of them anyway
8y5Frez.jpg


This was OC Daisy Patches in my Green Mountain RB Barrel, The patches look Awful, but the Group i shot was Good?
3kiePVN.jpg
 
Back in the day I used black and a 58 Hawkin with 1 in 66 twist. I used swaged round balls and store bought prelubed patches. The gun had a tang peep with a 1/16" blade front and would group 3 inches at 100 yds. I shot several deer with
it, all double lung pass thru's. When my eyes south I had to hang the gun up for an inline with scope but I always liked it.
 
You bring up a good point on purchased vs. cast RBs. I've cast my own but for my purposes plan on using Hornady's. I was always under the impression that the swaged may be "better" b.c. no cavity line. Of course that was what I was once told. No real experimentation to prove yet...
It's been quite a while since I shot Hornaday balls, But my VA friend uses them, I mentioned to him about weighing them, and he did find quite a bit of variation. He's gone right now are I would find out exactly grains. I hold my own casted balls to plus or minus 1/2 grain. As soon as he gets back, which will be right after New Year's, I will post it.
Squint
 
Looking at Lewis's pics of the daisy patches it seems like the cut of the patch is exposing more surface area and hence the loose weave of the edges to abuse from the powder gases.
 
Looking at Lewis's pics of the daisy patches it seems like the cut of the patch is exposing more surface area and hence the loose weave of the edges to abuse from the powder gases.
That is possible. At any rate, they’re working well for me and I have a bag or two left. Given the small amount of round ball shooting I do anyway they may outlast me...
 
A patch just needs to seal between the ball and the barrel so there is no gas leaking by, be tight enough that it imparts the barrel's twist to the ball, do both those things for the length of its ride down the barrel, and release from the ball once it leaves the barrel.
That's all it needs to do. Simple!
Except there are several variables.

I feel the best way to guarantee uniform patches over a long period of time is to select material from a fabric store and make them yourself. First you have to find the right material. This will require a micrometer or calipers, with a micrometer being easier for most to consistently measure with. Find the 100% cotton section and put the c-mic to work. You want to measure compressed thickness. Buy whatever minimum the store allows of a few different thicknesses (1/4 yard or 1/2 yard usually). The material will need washed to get the sizing starch out of it. Wash in hot water with no detergent. Put in a nylon or a delicates bag or it will unravel something fierce. Hang to dry. May want to iron it after it is dry.

Now you need to figure out what size you want them. The patch needs to wrap around the ball enough to seal the gasses behind it, but not be so big that the excess will grab and hold on to your short starter when you knock it into the barrel. Many feel the best way to get the perfect size patch is to cut at the muzzle. You can just always cut at the muzzle when you load, or use this method to figure out optimum patch size by doing this and then pulling it back out of the bore and measuring, or simply figure it out by cutting a few different sizes and then seeing what looks "about right" after short starting them.
Cut patches for each material you bought for testing. Square, square with the corners nipped off with scissors, or punched out round from some sort of tool.
One more thing I'd like to mention. I refuse to use a PRB combo that requires something extra as an over powder wad so the combo will shoot well. I feel a combo can be found that shoots very well without an extra over powder wad being needed. That's the darn patch's job!

Now you need to pick a lube. There are dang near more patch lubes than stars in the sky, but there are two main types: damp for ease of loading that will be shot right away, and grease style "hunting" lubes that can sit on the powder charge for a long time without drying out or leaching into the powder charge. In my experimenting I've found that I can almost always make a specific lube work for me, but I can increase/decrease group sizes by varying how much I apply to the patch. Somewhere between barely enough to just coat the entire patch out to the edges to "filling the weave" will likely be what your gun prefers.

I mainly use Mink oil from Track of the Wolf, home made olive oil / bees wax lube, or Frontier's anti-rust and patch lube. I apply them to the patches by hand and am perfectly happy with my group sizes for hunting. This next part is dependent on how OCD you are.

There is nothing more consistent for controlling the exact amount of lube and then applying that exact amount of lube to every single patch, that I'm aware of, than the Dutch Schultz method. This involves mixing Ballistol and water together, or castor oil and denatured alcohol, or some type of water soluble oil and water. Dutch says best accuracy is generally found somewhere between a 5:1 ratio and an 8:1 ratio. He has a book available that goes into way more detail of every facet of BP shooting.
An example of Dutch style lube application at a 7:1 ratio: Measure out 7 parts water to 1 part Ballistol. Mix them well. Dip patches into the solution and then squeeze out the excess lube. Some shoot them just like this as a damp style range lube, but Dutch set them out and let the water evaporate. All that will be left is an exact amount of Ballistol for a lube that can be used as a "hunting" style lube. Letting them dry generally makes the patches curl up, a bit annoying to me. "Dry" style patches like these almost always require swabbing between shots. Just a warning if you prefer to not have to swab.

Now you have several patch thicknesses lubed up and ready for testing. Don't forget that you need to find optimum powder charge as well. Find what makes the smallest groups. Then go back to the fabric store, find the winning material again, measure compressed thickness to be for sure it is the same thickness as what you tested, and then buy a couple yards of it. You will be set for patches for a LONG time.
 
I put in some cotton into my PRB load for deer hunting. I felt I might get a misfire if the oil from the patch soaked into the powder. I kept it in for over a week and it fired when I unloaded it a week later. Maybe the cotton helped , i dont know. If I am just range shooting , I dont bother with a wad.
 
And sometimes the patch ain"t up to the job ! To much powder to little lube or not enough weave and there goes accuracy ,a wad makes up for that every time .And not for nothing it"s guaranteed to help with most conicals ./Ed

I Couldn't of said it better myself :lewis: I use them, and will continue to do so. I have Bores that truly Look like Mirrors, yet Patches are DESTROYED, I use a Simple OP Wad and the Problem is Solved. They are worth it to me, My Targets Dont lie

This is a tight PRB Group, Shot WITH an OP Wad.
EiZzAXy.jpg
 
And sometimes the patch ain"t up to the job ! To much powder to little lube or not enough weave and there goes accuracy ,a wad makes up for that every time .And not for nothing it"s guaranteed to help with most conicals ./Ed

Exactly what I mean. If the patch ain't up to the job I believe a patch that is up to the job can be found.
I had a load that was shooting well with a .015" store bought cotton patch (I was lubing myself, mink oil I think), I was using 75 grains of 2f. When I started testing for a 3f load I found that the patch wasn't holding up anymore, yet groups weren't as tight as I wanted yet and I felt a bit more powder would help. I'm sure I could've added some kind of over powder wad to help out the patch, but instead I bumped up to an .018" ticking patch. Problem solved. I then ended up going 10 more grains beyond where the .015" patch was failing and found an accurate combo.
To each their own as they say. I have no doubt that a wad may help out a patch problem, I've just always found that a thicker patch will cure the problem. Going to a thicker patch has solved a patch burning up problem 100% of the time for me so far. Yes, I end up with some combos that require a good smack to get started and you certainly don't push them all the way down the bore in one go.
A lead bullet loaded right on top of the powder is entirely different, as there is nothing to protect the base of the bullet. A wad makes perfect sense for that application. But a PRB already has something that should seal and protect the ball.
 
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