sabot for .375 bullets

[encoreguy]

Does anyone know of any sabots available to shoot .375 bullets out of either a .45 or .50 cal muzzleloader? There are quite a few bullet options here with higher b.c.'s. I thought it might be worth a try since that bullet would be legal here in Indiana.

 

[Anonymous]

Not that are commercially available. Problem is, you run out of rate of twist.

 

[encoreguy]

Not that are commercially available. Problem is, you run out of rate of twist.

Do you mean that current barrels do not have a fast enough rate of twist?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes.

.357 Mag. = 1 in 16"
.35 Remington = 1 in 16"
.35 Whelen = 1 in 16"
.350 Rem. Mag. = 1 in 16"
.375 H&H Mag. = 1 in 12"
.378 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 12"

 

[encoreguy]

Yes.

.357 Mag. = 1 in 16"
.35 Remington = 1 in 16"
.35 Whelen = 1 in 16"
.350 Rem. Mag. = 1 in 16"
.375 H&H Mag. = 1 in 12"
.378 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 12"

A muzzleloader with a sabot is a whole different game than a cartridge rifle. I dont think that you can use those as a realistic bench mark. If so a 1 in 28" rifle should never be able to shoot a .40, .44 or .45 projectile with any accuracy. Plus we are talking about a lot less velocity and plastic against the lands not copper. Not sure what to think?

 

[Anonymous]

A muzzleloader with a sabot is a whole different game than a cartridge rifle. I dont think that you can use those as a realistic bench mark. If so a 1 in 28" rifle should never be able to shoot a .40, .44 or .45 projectile with any accuracy. Plus we are talking about a lot less velocity and plastic against the lands not copper. Not sure what to think?

You certainly can-- rate of twist and muzzle velocity determines RPS-- that's all there is. In the case of pistol bullets like the .452 XTP's that work so well, we are talking far more muzzle velocity not less.

Greenhill's formula (and variants) is the same, regardless of whether it loads from the muzzle.

.45-70 bullets have worked well in the Savage, though the std. 45-70 is 1:20, we can stabilize the bullets with a bit higher MV though the Savage which has a 1:24. Though a 300 gr. Barnes MZ-Expander shoots lights out in my Savages, not so in many 1:28 guns. Same with the .40 / 50 260 Dead Center-- great out of the Savage, but it will not group out of a 1:28.

The rules are identical.

 

[encoreguy]

Randy, why did the early .45 cal muzzleloaders with a 1 in 20" twist shoot so poorly? They lasted around a year before all of the manufactures switched to a 1 in 28" twist. Don't you still think you can over rotate the sabot? If you could have any twist you wanted out of a .45 and .50 what would you choose to shoot the higher b.c (longer) bullets?

 

[Anonymous]

Randy, why did the early .45 cal muzzleloaders with a 1 in 20" twist shoot so poorly?

Not all of them did. Very few .45s shoot as well as their .50 caliber counterparts; one of the reasons the .45 is a dead caliber once again.

Not "all" the manufacturers switched to 1:28; Thompson did if that is what you mean. Not Knight.

The limit of current formulation sabots for reliable performance is 1:22 according to MMP.

 

[encoreguy]

Randy, that is interesting, I have never heard the 1 in 22" limit quoted by a sabot company. That is good information. I could be wrong but I am rather sure Knight is not 1 in 20 and I think they are 1 in 30" now. If you were to have a custom .50 barrel made for an Encore (by SMI) specifically to shoot smokeless with the higher B.C. bullets (300 grain .45, 300 grain .44 and even 260-300 grain .40's if I could find them what twist would you recommend?

Thanks for all of your input!

 

[Anonymous]

Joe Name and Ron Name are far better qualified to answer what they have seen the best results with, in their barrels, with over the many years they have been offering them.

I'd personally look at a 1:24, or a 1:26 for 300 gr. bullets.

For 250 gr. class bullets, I'd look more at 1:28 or 1:30.

Naturally most all of the powder, bullet, and sabot testing I've done has been with a Savage and 1:24 twist barrels. The Savage was designed around 300 gr. bullets.

Some consideration has to be given to the velocity that you intend to shoot. No way would I want anything tighter than 1:24, regardless of .45 or .50 caliber.

Henry and Bill Ball have shot custom sabot-less smokeless muzzleloaders for years. The sabot out of the way, they shoot 1:18 barrels.

 

[Rifleman]

Kyle I have given up on shooting the light weights at speed in my Savage as I was steered to a better alternative by RW. Use a Barnes .458 300 gr original with either vvn120 or H322, Run it at 2350 and you can zero at 200 and have a drop of about 5 moa at 300yds. Very accurate, easy, and drop wise mimics a 250 sst at 2575 fps. If you can beat it let me know, but I highly doubt it can be done in a Savage.

 

[Anonymous]

Very accurate, easy, and drop wise mimics a 250 sst at 2575 fps. If you can beat it let me know, but I highly doubt it can be done in a Savage.

Even better than that: 30% less wind drift @ 250 yards, another 400 fpe on target at 250 yards.

The .458 300 gr. Barnes @ 2300 fps has less wind drift and more energy on target than a 250 SST pushed at 2700 fps at all ranges starting at 100 yards to infinity.

 

[encoreguy]

I agree with you both. That is why I alway try to find a 300 grain bullet (or higher B.C bullet) and powder load that will shoot well. Speed is nice but higher B.C. and kinetic energy kills deer. Wind drift is such a huge factor and I don't think many guys really know how much it affects a muzzleloader bullet at the 200 yard range and further. Last fall I had a good rest and a deer at a laser ranged yardage of 202 yards. I had a 20 mph full effect wind that gusted to 30+ and I chose not to take the shot. Way too risky with my Encore or any muzzleloader for that matter (in my opinion) I shoot the gun a great deal and about 10 mph full effect wind is about all I am comfortable with.