White rifles and sabots

[sabotloader]

That is not the same sabot, and I've never had one of the White sabots melt on me with any black powder sub, even Blackhorn 209.

I've had plenty of Cecil and Dels .45/.357 sabots fry with that orange polymer in the hot weather.

Sorry - they are White Power Stars that came with one of my White 451's. I probably still have a few around here someplace.

 

[Busta]

The orange sabot is not the same as the White (tan) Sabot. It doesn't have the same base on it for one.

What bullet were you trying to shoot in the White Sabot? A Lehigh brass flat base bullet?

The White Sabots were made for swaged lead boatailed bullets. They are angled at the base of the bullet cup to accommodate a boatail. Anything else is not going to work.

When I shot the bullets with Blackhorn 209, the base of the powder cup would roll over up onto the sabot after leaving the barrel. The White Sabot has ribs around the base that allow the base to do this.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Nice shooting Busta

Busta , you ,Sabotloader and GM are a wealth of knowledge. I very much enjoy your opinions and experiences . I may not always agree but always look forward to what you guys have to say !

 

[sabotloader]

The orange sabot is not the same as the White (tan) Sabot. It doesn't have the same base on it for one.

I do not have any Orange sabots sabots, well that is not true the Orange sabots that I have a .458 sabots. The white/tan sabot that is blown up is the sabot that came with the old White 91 - 451 that I purchased. The experimental red sabots in the picture were produced by MMP from the Power Star mold that Del (MMP) had. He produced them in red and with the new HPH polymer for this experimental run. He sent a sample package to four or five people for testing + I sent several out to few different people.

What bullet were you trying to shoot in the White Sabot? A Lehigh brass flat base bullet?

Correct... I was test shooting 3 different bullets. Lehigh/Bloodline 40x200, Lehigh 40x230, and a Nosler 40x200 all of them are flat base. The Power Stars were shot with 120 grains of T7 and the Lehigh 40x230.

The White Sabots were made for swaged lead boatailed bullets. They are angled at the base of the bullet cup to accommodate a boatail. Anything else is not going to work.

I sent Del several samples of the Lehigh 230 and Del was the one that suggested the White sabot mold. I was hoping he might make a new sabot - but I did not know the cost of producing a new mold to MMP standards - out of site. I can not say that I looked into the Power Stars to even look at the base.

When I shot the bullets with Blackhorn 209, the base of the powder cup would roll over up onto the sabot after leaving the barrel. The White Sabot has ribs around the base that allow the base to do this.

Yes, that is exactly what these red sabots did. When I was discussing this with Del his first quesion was how the accuracy? No problem with accuracy but people are going to look at the recovered sabots and say that they are failing, which really they were not. They might not look good but they worked. The tan ones did not work at all which Del thought could be the heat and the velocity that they were shot at. They were not designed for 2200fps.

 

[Busta]

Ok, your RED sabot looks orange on my screen. It is not the same sabot as the White TAN sabot. Look closer.




It may have been made from a modified White sabot mold that removed the rings from the outside of the base, and I suspect that the bottom of the bullet cup was probably modified for a flat based bullet as well.

Either I'm having a serious case of deja vu, or weave hashed this out once before?

You cannot shoot a flat based brass bullet in a White Sabot and expect it to survive. Just loading it into the barrel will severely compromise the walls below the petals, making them thin from the force it would take to push the bullet into the bottom of the bullet cup and system your bore. If you didn't get the bullet to push through the chamfered portion in the bottom of the bullet cup, when you shoot it, it certainly isn't going to make it better.

Those .45 cal White TAN sabots were made for the 350 grain swaged lead .40 cal boatailed bullets, and they shoot just fine with any BP or BP Substitute. Except if you are shooting a .45 caliber Knight Elite 1:30 twist with a piss poor factory crown.

 

[Busta]

Here is what the .45 caliber White TAN sabots look like after shooting the 350 grain .40 caliber swaged lead bullets with Blackhorn 209 in a 1:20 twist. They are in the back of this pic, Harvester smooth blues in front after shooting 195 gr Barnes and Blackhorn 209 in a 1:20 twist.




For comparison, tan MMP and Harvester blue Crush Rib after shooting 195 gr Barnes and Blackhorn 209 in a 1:20 twist.




I wouldn't consider any of them compromised. Now take a look at the old T/C green by MMP Super .45 sabots In the foreground. Severely compromised after shooting 195 gr Barnes and Blackhorn 209 in a 1:20 twist.




Just some observations from my little 100 meter range out back.

 

[GM54-120]

Del made the experimental sabot from the old White sabot mold instead of cutting a new mold from scratch. IMO if he would have cut the power cup like the 52cal sabots they would have been golden.

 

[Busta]

Or made the bullet fit the bullet cup with a boatail, they wouldn't have had to change a thing.

You can't just jam a flat based brass bullet in a boatail sabot and expect a good outcome.

The sabot worked perfectly for the bullet in which it was designed for.

Some experiments work, others not so much!

Had a few of them myself in 85º weather, in the shade.