I want to learn bullet to bore with BH

[Sideshow]

I want to learn bullet to bore with blackhorn shooting / loading . What is the right / best ways to do this ?? I want to do this for a 50 and 45 cal . I have found bits and pieces of info here scattered through the years . This makes it difficult to do safely and reliably for all who would like to learn tbis . Please help !!!! Please cover it thouroghly . Thank you in advance !!!

 

[Sideshow]

I want to learn bullet to bore with blackhorn shooting / loading . What is the right / best ways to do this ?? I want to do this for a 50 and 45 cal . I have found bits and pieces of info here scattered through the years . This makes it difficult to do safely and reliably for all who would like to learn tbis . Please help !!!! Please cover it thouroghly . Thank you in advance !!!

I know this is alot of work to ask this . Im not alone in wanting to know how .

 

[GM54-120]

2 methods

Adjustable sizing die....$125-$160.......Most expensive but the least amount of effort.




The other method is buy a cheap Lee lube sizer that is slightly smaller than your land to land. You will also need a couple brand new high quality files. One file and a good piece of hard pressed wool felt will work too. You knurl up the undersized bullet to around .002 to .003 over lands. I have never had a bullet stuck using this method. You can use another cheap Lee sizer to even the knurling after also. Such as a .452 or .454 die depending on your land to land size. If you need other sizes skip the Lee die and get the NOE die with replaceable sizer bushings

 

[Sideshow]

2 methods

Adjustable sizing die....$125-$160.......Most expensive but the least amount of effort.




The other method is buy a cheap Lee lube sizer that is slightly smaller than your land to land. You will also need a couple brand new high quality files. One file and a good piece of hard pressed wool felt will work too. You knurl up the undersized bullet to around .002 to .003 over lands. I have never had a bullet stuck using this method. You can use another cheap Lee sizer to even the knurling after also. Such as a .452 or .454 die depending on your land to land size. If you need other sizes skip the Lee die and get the NOE die with replaceable sizer bushings

Thank you for this

 

[GM54-120]

Just remember no 2 bullets size the same. You cant size a Speer then a Hornady on the same setting and expect the same results. You will need to make some adjustments for spring back. Barnes for example dont spring back hardly at all and are also much harder to size. You need a really good press for a Barnes solid copper bullet. Bullets like the Parker BE and Nosler sporting handgun size like butter through the die. A hand press works fine for those. I do it all the time and im no gorilla.

Be careful about sizing bullets and letting them set for a month. You might get a surprise. Double check them before range day.

 

[Idaholewis]

Just remember no 2 bullets size the same. You cant size a Speer then a Hornady on the same setting and expect the same results. You will need to make some adjustments for spring back. Barnes for example dont spring back hardly at all and are also much harder to size. You need a really good press for a Barnes solid copper bullet. Bullets like the Parker BE and Nosler sporting handgun size like butter through the die. A hand press works fine for those. I do it all the time and im no gorilla.

Be careful about sizing bullets and letting them set for a month. You might get a surprise. Double check them before range day.

Excellent advice GM I have played around quite a bit with Jacketed Sabotless in my Sidelocks and have found EXACTLY what you speak of here, Some size easier, Some MUCH Harder, and Spring Back DEFINITELY needs to be watched, measured for after they have Sat. Good example, these Few Hornady FTX 250s i have Spring back more than others I’ve messed with. If i need .449, i need to Run them through a .448, They will end up .449, If i were to Shoot More Jacketed Sabotless i would NO DOUBT Buy a Swinglock Adjustable Sizer

 

[Sideshow]

Just remember no 2 bullets size the same. You cant size a Speer then a Hornady on the same setting and expect the same results. You will need to make some adjustments for spring back. Barnes for example dont spring back hardly at all and are also much harder to size. You need a really good press for a Barnes solid copper bullet. Bullets like the Parker BE and Nosler sporting handgun size like butter through the die. A hand press works fine for those. I do it all the time and im no gorilla.

Be careful about sizing bullets and letting them set for a month. You might get a surprise. Double check them before range day.

I have a RCBS ROCKCHUCKER . What about those you dont knurl , or do you knurl them all ?? My knurling tool is homemade with angle iron and wheels from a lathe tool . Tension is by spring . I have 3 sets of knurlers from fine , medium , to coarse . I think i will also need a push pressure tool too ?? An adjustable sizer is planned . What about for now thors or furys or ???

 

[ENCORE50A]

I have a RCBS ROCKCHUCKER . What about those you dont knurl , or do you knurl them all ?? My knurling tool is homemade with angle iron and wheels from a lathe tool . Tension is by spring . I have 3 sets of knurlers from fine , medium , to coarse . I think i will also need a push pressure tool too ?? An adjustable sizer is planned . What about for now thors or furys or ???

The Fury bullets will be an excellent choice for sizing. They have very little, if any spring back. They will also put the hammer on what you're shooting at.
Doesn't matter rather its the 50cal or 45cal bullets.

 

[Busta]

A couple things I'd like to add, would be to make sure to keep the good quality files in a dry place, and only use them for bullet knurling. Use a file cleaner, and a good quality rust preventative on them. You do not want any rust particles or metal shavings getting imbedded into your bullets while knurling. That would not be good for your bore.

When Hank says keep your barrels dirty, he is talking about them exotic powders that are not approved for "black powder rifles". You mentioned you wanted to use Blackhorn 209, so keep them clean after each shooting session, unless you happen to be carrying one of those golden horseshoe suppositories around.

Make sure you have a good ignition source with a locking bolt, standing breech, or locking breech block.

Sometimes a guy gets lucky, and can find certain bullets to fit certain bores, but not something you can count on without having several rifles and trying several bullets.

The smooth sizing dies would be the way to go, to get the perfect fit for several different bullets and bore sizes.

Use a wad between your bullet and powder. Sagebrush makes the largest diameter 0.462" and 0.518" veggie wads in both 0.030" and 0.060" thick. If you go with wool wads, use .50 cal wads in the .45 cals, and use .54 cal wads in the .50 cals.

https://m.sageoutfitters.com/catalog/item/7209324/7463753.htm


Start with moderate powder loads, and work up only in rifles suited for shooting sabotless with Blackhorn 209. Depending on breech plug design, and brand of 209 primer, they can be all over the map as far as visible pressure signs. Just keep your loads under the maximum published loads on Western Powders Load Data for the bullet weight you are shooting. There is no published technical Load Data for .45 caliber rifles, or any other caliber besides .50 caliber. So keep that in mind.

The best, easiest bullets to get to shoot sabotless are lead core, copper jacketed bullets. Monolithic copper or brass bullets are damn hard to get to obturate into the grooves enough to stabilize with Blackhorn 209 in my experience. So much so, that I have discounted them as viable options.

"Keep your stick on the ice"!

 

[Sideshow]

A couple things I'd like to add, would be to make sure to keep the good quality files in a dry place, and only use them for bullet knurling. Use a file cleaner, and a good quality rust preventative on them. You do not want any rust particles or metal shavings getting imbedded into your bullets while knurling. That would not be good for your bore.

When Hank says keep your barrels dirty, he is talking about them exotic powders that are not approved for "black powder rifles". You mentioned you wanted to use Blackhorn 209, so keep them clean after each shooting session, unless you happen to be carrying one of those golden horseshoe suppositories around.

Make sure you have a good ignition source with a locking bolt, standing breech, or locking breech block.

Sometimes a guy gets lucky, and can find certain bullets to fit certain bores, but not something you can count on without having several rifles and trying several bullets.

The smooth sizing dies would be the way to go, to get the perfect fit for several different bullets and bore sizes.

Use a wad between your bullet and powder. Sagebrush makes the largest diameter 0.462" and 0.518" veggie wads in both 0.030" and 0.060" thick. If you go with wool wads, use .50 cal wads in the .45 cals, and use .54 cal wads in the .50 cals.

https://m.sageoutfitters.com/catalog/item/7209324/7463753.htm


Start with moderate powder loads, and work up only in rifles suited for shooting sabotless with Blackhorn 209. Depending on breech plug design, and brand of 209 primer, they can be all over the map as far as visible pressure signs. Just keep your loads under the maximum published loads on Western Powders Load Data for the bullet weight you are shooting. There is no published technical Load Data for .45 caliber rifles, or any other caliber besides .50 caliber. So keep that in mind.

The best, easiest bullets to get to shoot sabotless are lead core, copper jacketed bullets. Monolithic copper or brass bullets are damn hard to get to obturate into the grooves enough to stabilize with Blackhorn 209 in my experience. So much so, that I have discounted them as viable options.

"Keep your stick on the ice"!

Thanks Busta !!! I got this 50 knight disc to update with a bestill plug and a different bolt that will be my heavy . I will get a 45 barrel eventually or another rifle . I can see no point in continueing on with sabots and being restricted to no mz all summer besides the super 91 . Thats my take on me . I want others with this desire to be able to know how also if they wish and have a suitable gun as well . Its not just about me for this thread . I think thats a good thing to aspire for . To have the info in one spot , one thread for referance . Thanks to you and to all who choose to contribute here .

 

[ENCORE50A]

Slideshow..... go with a smooth sizing die/s and forget about the files. There have been instances where pieces of a file have broken off and embedded in a bullet.
Remember that each bullet type/grain weight will size differently. Its not just making a die setting and a "good for all".

 

[Sideshow]

Slideshow..... go with a smooth sizing die/s and forget about the files. There have been instances where pieces of a file have broken off and embedded in a bullet.
Remember that each bullet type/grain weight will size differently. Its not just making a die setting and a "good for all".

Personally i have a homemade knurling tool made from a lathe knurling tool with 3 knurl choices . Its made with angle iron and looks like the " pie" math symbol or a "T" with 2 down legs . 1 side pivots , 1 doesnt . I can adjust my knurls to be up off the bullet heel too . Different strength sprimgs control pressure at the bottom of the legs for contact pressure . It has a crank handle to rotate all . Kinda nice . I saw one on dougs message boards before and copied it . Top of the "T" is secured in a vise . I made this so bullet spin in a sabot was not a factor to accuracy . I dont think i got $50 in it all total .

 

[Sideshow]

Slideshow..... go with a smooth sizing die/s and forget about the files. There have been instances where pieces of a file have broken off and embedded in a bullet.
Remember that each bullet type/grain weight will size differently. Its not just making a die setting and a "good for all".

Yea i see they are all individual challenges . Thanks for the heads up !!!

 

[Macegl]

Following this one, thanks to all the knowledgeable folks who are sharing!

 

[Sideshow]

A

Following this one, thanks to all the knowledgeable folks who are sharing!

Amen !!!

 

[Sideshow]

A couple things I'd like to add, would be to make sure to keep the good quality files in a dry place, and only use them for bullet knurling. Use a file cleaner, and a good quality rust preventative on them. You do not want any rust particles or metal shavings getting imbedded into your bullets while knurling. That would not be good for your bore.

When Hank says keep your barrels dirty, he is talking about them exotic powders that are not approved for "black powder rifles". You mentioned you wanted to use Blackhorn 209, so keep them clean after each shooting session, unless you happen to be carrying one of those golden horseshoe suppositories around.

Make sure you have a good ignition source with a locking bolt, standing breech, or locking breech block.

Sometimes a guy gets lucky, and can find certain bullets to fit certain bores, but not something you can count on without having several rifles and trying several bullets.

The smooth sizing dies would be the way to go, to get the perfect fit for several different bullets and bore sizes.

Use a wad between your bullet and powder. Sagebrush makes the largest diameter 0.462" and 0.518" veggie wads in both 0.030" and 0.060" thick. If you go with wool wads, use .50 cal wads in the .45 cals, and use .54 cal wads in the .50 cals.

https://m.sageoutfitters.com/catalog/item/7209324/7463753.htm


Start with moderate powder loads, and work up only in rifles suited for shooting sabotless with Blackhorn 209. Depending on breech plug design, and brand of 209 primer, they can be all over the map as far as visible pressure signs. Just keep your loads under the maximum published loads on Western Powders Load Data for the bullet weight you are shooting. There is no published technical Load Data for .45 caliber rifles, or any other caliber besides .50 caliber. So keep that in mind.

The best, easiest bullets to get to shoot sabotless are lead core, copper jacketed bullets. Monolithic copper or brass bullets are damn hard to get to obturate into the grooves enough to stabilize with Blackhorn 209 in my experience. So much so, that I have discounted them as viable options.

"Keep your stick on the ice"!

Sounds like Barnes or other solids are really only a full form or sabot option . Damn !!! Well all is not lost . I CAN use a sabot for those..... i REALLY like them copper bullets !!! Want to try Bear Creek Ballistic 285 's BAD !!! The potential for a 400 yd mz is just AWESOME !!!! I hunt alot of farmland and seem to always choose the wrong fencerow to be in !!!!!! Well 300 yds anyway....if i have the velocity and accuracy out of the 50 . Thats what i got , for now......

 

[Sideshow]

Slideshow..... go with a smooth sizing die/s and forget about the files. There have been instances where pieces of a file have broken off and embedded in a bullet.
Remember that each bullet type/grain weight will size differently. Its not just making a die setting and a "good for all".

The smooth size die would be easiest . I figure a hand press would be a good idea to carry along everywhere just in case ?? They arent much . This spring back stuff is worrysome going on a hunt far from home .

 

[Sideshow]

Just remember no 2 bullets size the same. You cant size a Speer then a Hornady on the same setting and expect the same results. You will need to make some adjustments for spring back. Barnes for example dont spring back hardly at all and are also much harder to size. You need a really good press for a Barnes solid copper bullet. Bullets like the Parker BE and Nosler sporting handgun size like butter through the die. A hand press works fine for those. I do it all the time and im no gorilla.

Be careful about sizing bullets and letting them set for a month. You might get a surprise. Double check them before range day.

Youve mentioned a Remington 385gr bullet in your 54 . I assume its a 50cal with the purple sabot was your combo ?? What was this bullet made for ?? Youre right , theres not much to choose from for a full bore 50 . Any suggestions ???

 

[GM54-120]

Solid coppers perform better if annealed. Heat them to glowing with a torch and tip them over into some water. Personally its just not worth the effort to me unless you step upto CF pressures and a full blown custom build. 50cal sabotless is more difficult just because bullet selection is poor and to get into the BC range you can get with a 45cal you need to move upto a really heavy bullet. Its just not that great for longer ranges compared to a 45cal.

40cal is starting to show a lot of promise with BH209. A 300gr 40cal can pretty much be shot at Savage MLII speeds but has a way better BC. Its just harder on breach plugs, vents and bushings. You dont even need super jumbo loads of BH209 to get there.

 

[GM54-120]

Youve mentioned a Remington 385gr bullet in your 54 . I assume its a 50cal with the purple sabot was your combo ?? What was this bullet made for ?? Youre right , theres not much to choose from for a full bore 50 . Any suggestions ???

That bullet is no longer offered by Remington.