BH 209 - Wiping between shots?

[Chick]

I use Jeff from BeStill Creations procedure for swapping in between. It can be found on here along with a lot of other valuable information about Blackhorn 209
Prior to that I have shot hundreds of shots without cleaning in between. No change in accuracy and no change in loading pressure. What I did see using this procedure was an increase in accuracy, Plus BH209 is still corrosive just at a slower lesser rate than other black powder substitutes.

Greg

Thanks! But you said you said you saw no change in accuracy when not cleaning after hundreds of shots, then you said you saw an increase in accuracy when wiping. I have used the BH209 for years. I am trying to determine the cause of unexplained flyers. I am shooting a tight little group, and suddenly a bullet lands 5-6" high. I have seen this with 7 different rifles I own, and seen it on an equal number of rifles owned by a friend.

 

[Chick]

I run a brush down the barrel after every shot whether hunting or shooting at the range. It's something I've always done with blackpowder first, then 777 and now with Blackhorn. It always made a difference with the other powders, with Blackhorn, I couldn't say one way or the other. But repetitiveness is good for safety and consistency.

When I was shooting BP and later 777, I had to wipe between shots. It was not an option!

 

[Chick]

Only reason to swab or clean between shots with any gun shooting black powder or a black powder substitute is if you are one of those picky guys that insist on accuracy lol.

Unrelated to question

 

[Chick]

Shoot a clean shot at one target a dirty shot at another target swab and repeat 3-4 times. You can see then if it makes a difference or not in your rifle with your load.

Your answer did not address the question.

 

[eekjellander]

Unrelated to the question.

Guess you need more detail ,I always wipe between shots when given the option ! And always use real black until this yr when my deer died at 96 yds using 80 gr volume of BH209 propelling a 50cal Great Plains lubed with bear oil BW/unsalted Crisco and never ever not clean gun when done target/hunting no matter time of day/nite or if I feel like it . I might forget ! /Ed

 

[Neumonic]

I am trying to determine the cause of unexplained flyers. I am shooting a tight little group, and suddenly a bullet lands 5-6" high. I have seen this with 7 different rifles I own, and seen it on an equal number of rifles owned by a friend.

I am chasing inconsistency issues with my .308, yesterday I replaced the base/rail and rings to some high dollar $hit to see if that changes anything before I send my scope to the manufacture. Similar to you, gun was on now I can’t get consistent groups no matter the ammo I feed it.

Muzzleloader wise, I have had some occasional flyers out of my Traditions after years of use, played with sabots then switched to Harvester 260 grain scorpions and seem to have regained a respectable group.

 

[MrTom]

With 209 powder at the range I never wipe between shots, but I do pull the plug and clean the flash channel at about 15 shots. I blow out the breech with canned air, re-install the plug and go back at it. I clean the gun completely when I get home. Hunting I clean the gun completely at the season's end and never wipe after a shot is taken during the season.

 

[snapbang]

I am chasing inconsistency issues with my .308,

Make sure all the bolts, screws are tight.
Describe inconsistency. 1", 2" 3" groups????

 

[Rainorshine]

My TC Omega shoots consistently with either a clean or a fouled bore using BH 209. My preference is to shoot from a clean bore. My longest shot with that rifle is 198 yds.

My Rem. UML groups better with a fouled bore and there is a few inches difference between the first shot through a clean bore and subsequent shots through the fouled bore. I’m still getting some unexplained fliers with a fouled bore. Right now I’m trying heavier bullets. Early results are promising but I need too shoot more to verify if the groups hold up and fliers go away.

 

[sdporter]

Both my Accuras are Niride over SS. My Optima is just plain SS. So, you go hunting on a non fouled barrel? Do you notice any difference of impact, between a fouled and non-fouled barrel? How far is your futherest shot?

I was addressing this post. I personally only clean, while at the range, if I’m trying a different load, otherwise, end of the day, when shooting at the range or after the last day of the season. I hunt on a fouled bore.

 

[sdporter]

You have to shoot your own load combo from your rifle to see if there’s a difference in impact on a clean vs. fouled barrel. Most will have a difference. All my guns do.

 

[ENCORE50A]

..................My Rem. UML groups better with a fouled bore and there is a few inches difference between the first shot through a clean bore and subsequent shots through the fouled bore. I’m still getting some unexplained fliers with a fouled bore. Right now I’m trying heavier bullets. Early results are promising but I need too shoot more to verify if the groups hold up and fliers go away.

If you're still using the OEM breech plug, I HIGHLY recommend the Arrowhead ignition system, then get rid of any sabots and go bullet to bore with the Fury Universal bullets in 320gr.

 

[Rainorshine]

If you're still using the OEM breech plug, I HIGHLY recommend the Arrowhead ignition system, then get rid of any sabots and go bullet to bore with the Fury Universal bullets in 320gr.

. Thanks Encore! I have installed the Arrowhead ignition system based on your earlier recommendation. It did help. But still get fliers. Ordered some Fury bullets Yesterday!

 

[ENCORE50A]

. Thanks Encore! I have installed the Arrowhead ignition system based on your earlier recommendation. It did help. But still get fliers. Ordered some Fury bullets Yesterday!

Those Fury are giving a lot of RUM shooters exceptional accuracy. The charges used by most run 106grs WEIGHT of BH209 ....... NOT FOR PRODUCTION MUZZLELOADERS.
No swabbing between rounds.

 

[Neumonic]

Make sure all the bolts, screws are tight.
Describe inconsistency. 1", 2" 3" groups????

I just put a new Warne 1 piece rail on it along with Warne Mountain Tech rings, going back to the range in a couple weeks and will see what happens. Last time this happened to me I had a bad scope from the factory.

 

[Pathfinder60]

If you're still using the OEM breech plug, I HIGHLY recommend the Arrowhead ignition system, then get rid of any sabots and go bullet to bore with the Fury Universal bullets in 320gr.

Sound advice here... unfortunately the universal fits were too tight for my CVA Plains Rifle bore so Dennis is going to make me some up without the gas check at the base and I'll make them fit with Hank's smooth adjustable sizing die...but the Arrowhead large rifle primer conversion is fantastic! So much more consistent, cleaner ignition.

 

[dwm]

Thanks! But you said you said you saw no change in accuracy when not cleaning after hundreds of shots, then you said you saw an increase in accuracy when wiping. I have used the BH209 for years. I am trying to determine the cause of unexplained flyers. I am shooting a tight little group, and suddenly a bullet lands 5-6" high. I have seen this with 7 different rifles I own, and seen it on an equal number of rifles owned by a friend.

I think,and i am not sure, but I believe the flyer has more to do with the sabot

 

[ovbill]

With 209 powder at the range I never wipe between shots, but I do pull the plug and clean the flash channel at about 15 shots. I blow out the breech with canned air, re-install the plug and go back at it. I clean the gun completely when I get home. Hunting I clean the gun completely at the season's end and never wipe after a shot is taken during the season.

I'm in the same boat as Mr Tom
Weight vs vol and I'm good to go
Encore Endeavor 77 gr by weight black horn 209
Barnes
250 TEZ
Or 290 both work well sited at 150yds
1.5 in group
6in low at 200
Last deer was 217
Drop like a stone used range finder before shot
Held just above front shoulder
P.S. also trigger,hammer & locking spring upgraded
And Bellm 1X hinge pin was done as well
Good gun made better , for very little in the scheme of things
Why it isn't done by the OEM is beyond me
But I wouldn't sell it now

 

[GregK]

Thanks! But you said you said you saw no change in accuracy when not cleaning after hundreds of shots, then you said you saw an increase in accuracy when wiping. I have used the BH209 for years. I am trying to determine the cause of unexplained flyers. I am shooting a tight little group, and suddenly a bullet lands 5-6" high. I have seen this with 7 different rifles I own, and seen it on an equal number of rifles owned by a friend.

The reason I went to this is because BH209 still can be corrosive and I hunt from November almost to January with my gun loaded and a fouled barrel
The increase in accuracy went from around an inch and a half three shot group at 200 yards to three bullets touching. Not enough to make a difference on deer but enough to see an increase in accuracy and that accuracy will translate to mean even more at longer distances
I have never experienced flyers from any of my rifles while shooting Blackhorn at any point so I would suggest just trying this to see if it makes a difference

 

[OXN]

Only guns that don’t get cleaned after every use in my house are my 9mm pistols and my AR.

Always hunt or take my first range shot with a clean barrel with regards to my hunting rifles including my ML’ers.

Personally, I don’t get the fouled barrel thing nor do I fire a primer to ensure the flash channel and combustion area are dry, I know everything is dry because I cleaned it all in preparation for my next use and have yet to have an ignition issue or an accuracy issue.

Plus one on this. Firing a primer to clean the flash hole is akin to changing the oil but not the filter because it is easier- it probably does a good enough job to prevent most issues, but it's good to know what's really happening there and how to do the job correctly.

Re the OP, every blackpowder substitute out there will cause some degree of corrosion if left without cleaning. Guess it's all about what you find to be acceptable. I personally clean my rifles within a few hours after shooting and run a patch down the bore between shots at the range. That way there's very little chance of corrosion during storage, and I practice with my clean bore zero.