45 cal rice barrel should be here soon!

[Rob Lynch]

i just completed paper patching a box of the 500grain swaged bullets from baco... seems i'm getting better the more i do (makes sense!)... Does anybody know how critical the patch length is??? ie i got some a little long & exposes the lead in the base hollow point. none of em will allow lead to touch the barrel,, which sounds better than the alternative, at least to me.... The 2 wraps bring up the .444's to .449.. hopefully perfect for the new barrel,,, i'll size em down a little if i have to though.. i will still be using a powder covering wad.. As i get better they will all end up the same... but i'll test a few with the little opening to see if the go "out of group"... now.. for the barrel to get back from blueing, (something i was going to do, but decided against since i sold an old toy)... These should hit hard on both ends!! anybody sell a pad for the hawken style stock???

I am honestly not sure how critical the length is. I made them all the same. Idaholewis showed in one of his videos that they had a mark on them from the swaging process, but mine didn't, so I just marked them with my caliper and rolled them. Maybe someone will chime in on this topic.

As for the size, I haven't had to size them yet and they slide perfectly down the bore with 2 fingers of pressure. Mine are .449 ish also. I was going to try some of the 500's on my next order.

I ordered a Leather pad from Buffalo Arms and it works fantastic for recoil reduction. The 500 gr bullets where killing me, especially with 95 gr of 2f powder behind them.

I am sure she will be a fine looking rifle when its all done. I decided to go with Cerakote Plum Brown for mine.

 

[exarcher]

I am honestly not sure how critical the length is. I made them all the same. Idaholewis showed in one of his videos that they had a mark on them from the swaging process, but mine didn't, so I just marked them with my caliper and rolled them. Maybe someone will chime in on this topic.

As for the size, I haven't had to size them yet and they slide perfectly down the bore with 2 fingers of pressure. Mine are .449 ish also. I was going to try some of the 500's on my next order.

I ordered a Leather pad from Buffalo Arms and it works fantastic for recoil reduction. The 500 gr bullets where killing me, especially with 95 gr of 2f powder behind them.

I am sure she will be a fine looking rifle when its all done. I decided to go with Cerakote Plum Brown for mine.

i just need to get my bullet board a little better marked & they will all come out the same,,, since it peels off ater exiting the barrel,,, it really shouldn't matter in my thinking,, (which has been know to be wrong)... Most of the 50 are the same.. i just didn't feel like re-doing some of them to see how "critical" it is... i've not been able to find any info on this... with a powder covering wad,, i don't see how it could make any diff at all... (we will see!)

 

[Rob Lynch]

i just need to get my bullet board a little better marked & they will all come out the same,,, since it peels off ater exiting the barrel,,, it really shouldn't matter in my thinking,, (which has been know to be wrong)... Most of the 50 are the same.. i just didn't feel like re-doing some of them to see how "critical" it is... i've not been able to find any info on this... with a powder covering wad,, i don't see how it could make any diff at all... (we will see!)

Would be interesting to find out. I never thought of using a bullet board. Hmmm gives me an idea.

 

[exarcher]

Would be interesting to find out. I never thought of using a bullet board. Hmmm gives me an idea.

it was in the book "the paper jacket",, have you read this?? i read all of it in 1 sittting,,, quite interesting... I didn't really know that paper patched bullets were what the buffalo hunters used,,, lots of neat info in there,, though its mostly geared to "cartridge" shooting... still a good read

 

[drpatton]

After I posted the screen shot of the green mountain barrel I kind of assumed when I said I wouldn't take that for mine, people would know we were talking about green mountain stainless steel fast twist barrels.

I thought all of yours were drop-ins but I didn't want to assume too much. Also, I didn't know they were all GM barrels. I wish they still made T/C drop-ins. I don't know why GM got out of the drop-in business. Of course, they are making Rice and Colerain very happy.

Evidently, there are a few people who use a 1:48 twist to reach out and touch a long range target. I'm not one of them. Your friend Lewis is one of them, or at least he has tried it several times and liked it.

 

[drpatton]

These should hit hard on both ends!! anybody sell a pad for the hawken style stock???

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0001004421/renegade-slip-on-recoil-pad-medium-black
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020685261

 

[idahoron]

I thought all of yours were drop-ins but I didn't want to assume too much. Also, I didn't know they were all GM barrels. I wish they still made T/C drop-ins. I don't know why GM got out of the drop-in business. Of course, they are making Rice and Colerain very happy.

Evidently, there are a few people who use a 1:48 twist to reach out and touch a long range target. I'm not one of them. Your friend Lewis is one of them, or at least he has tried it several times and liked it.

Up until Last summer I didn't own a factory Barrel that was of any value other than a tomato stake. I have a few of those.
I acquired one 50 cal that might be worth shooting.
The rest I have were brought cheap as donor rifles. I was able to talk the price down due to rhe poor condition of the barrel.

 

[Rob Lynch]

it was in the book "the paper jacket",, have you read this?? i read all of it in 1 sittting,,, quite interesting... I didn't really know that paper patched bullets were what the buffalo hunters used,,, lots of neat info in there,, though its mostly geared to "cartridge" shooting... still a good read

Thank you for the information on this. I did not know about this, but will check it out for sure.

 

[drpatton]

Up until Last summer I didn't own a factory Barrel that was of any value other than a tomato stake. I have a few of those.

I also bought a few "Tomato Stake" rifles. I wanted the stocks for my drop-ins. I kept the barrels in case some day, I would ask Bob Hoyt to sleeve them.

For many years, I had heard T/C Renegades were able to shoot MOA right out of the box. I never believed it. First, I never believed any muzzleloader, with the exception of the Whitworth, was capable of MOA, let alone a mass produced rifle. Obviously, I was wrong about that. There are many BP rifles which can shoot MOA, but until a few years ago, I wasn't aware of it. And now I own one.

A few months ago, I saw a video of your friend Idaho Lewis, shoot a couple stock Renegades (.50 & .54) with only the sights changed. He shot MOA at 500 yards. Lewis also shot a friend's Hawken kit rifle and made the comment "if you put the right components on the gun, they will all shoot just like this." He said he tinkered with it. I have no idea what he meant by tinkered. Maybe, a little trigger work?

Lewis proved to me, the T/C Renegades and Hawkens can be MOA rifles. They are definitely not competition rifles, but very well made masters of their craft.

 

[exarcher]

Would be interesting to find out. I never thought of using a bullet board. Hmmm gives me an idea.

it could be called a bullet "patching" board i guess.. never even heard of such until i read "the paper jacket".. it seems to be a "good idea" .. I've never heard anyone say this,, but a paper patch is nothing more than a thin "sabot"... it should eliminate leading completely... if the bullets group well,, i'll be a real fan of the papere patch!

 

[Rob Lynch]

I ordered the book you mentioned earlier and it will be here tomorrow. I believe you will be very happy with the performance of the Paper patch bullet. Here is what mine does with them at 100 yards. My first time shooting them, and then after a sight adjustment. This is with 85gr of 2f swiss measured by weight. These are my average group sizes I get. I have had a few that were better then this and below MOA.

 

[exarcher]

It would be difficult to shoot much better with "iron" sights!! are those the 450 grain bullets? I've got a box of the 400 grain ones to patch now.. I've never had a problem shooting heavy recoiling rifles,, it just is not pleasant! I prefer lower recoil. but i'm also partial to "small groups" .. I'm pretty sure i read somewhere a guy said the heavier the bullet he used with his "rice" the better it grouped. (it may have been you?). when i mic'd mine after patching they are .449 too... Hope my barrel is the same as yours!!. (I've got plenty of the swiss 2f to use now too,, after reading idaholewis chrono testing, i had to buy some,, I've read for years it is the dominant powder in black powder competition.) The schuetzen i have groups just fine with my 50 cal no excuse bullets,, but i've not been curious enough to set up my late dads old 3 screen chronograph in quite some time.. his testing is enough for me... The internet makes learning about this so much easier than it was when i got my first rifle 40yrs ago!!

 

[Rob Lynch]

It would be difficult to shoot much better with "iron" sights!! are those the 450 grain bullets? I've got a box of the 400 grain ones to patch now.. I've never had a problem shooting heavy recoiling rifles,, it just is not pleasant! I prefer lower recoil. but i'm also partial to "small groups" .. I'm pretty sure i read somewhere a guy said the heavier the bullet he used with his "rice" the better it grouped. (it may have been you?). when i mic'd mine after patching they are .449 too... Hope my barrel is the same as yours!!. (I've got plenty of the swiss 2f to use now too,, after reading idaholewis chrono testing, i had to buy some,, I've read for years it is the dominant powder in black powder competition.) The schuetzen i have groups just fine with my 50 cal no excuse bullets,, but i've not been curious enough to set up my late dads old 3 screen chronograph in quite some time.. his testing is enough for me... The internet makes learning about this so much easier than it was when i got my first rifle 40yrs ago!!

Thank you for the comment. I love using a Globe Sight. I use the small pin insert for steel plates and the globe insert for load work up. I use a 8 inch target @ 100 yards now which fills my front globe insert almost entirely, I used to use a larger one, but found this worked better. I also use orange dots in the middle as a center reference. So, as long as I see a small amount of light present, I know I am as centered as possible. Not sure if anyone else does this, but for me it works perfect. This was done with the 450 gr PP from BACO. I did say that my setup seemed like it shot better with the heavier bullets, or I am just getting more comfortable with shooting it. I don't mind the recoil, just the beat up feeling afterwards. I have some 2f from another company as well, but its really dirty so I stayed with Swiss. I hope you have the same results and luck that I have had with mine. I actually need to get another barrel for my Hawkens as well, just haven't decided on caliber yet.

 

[exarcher]

Thank you for the comment. I love using a Globe Sight. I use the small pin insert for steel plates and the globe insert for load work up. I use a 8 inch target @ 100 yards now which fills my front globe insert almost entirely, I used to use a larger one, but found this worked better. I also use orange dots in the middle as a center reference. So, as long as I see a small amount of light present, I know I am as centered as possible. Not sure if anyone else does this, but for me it works perfect. This was done with the 450 gr PP from BACO. I did say that my setup seemed like it shot better with the heavier bullets, or I am just getting more comfortable with shooting it. I don't mind the recoil, just the beat up feeling afterwards. I have some 2f from another company as well, but its really dirty so I stayed with Swiss. I hope you have the same results and luck that I have had with mine. I actually need to get another barrel for my Hawkens as well, just haven't decided on caliber yet.

i wish i had ordered the barrel for my renegade now,,, i hadn't even considered the recoil pad deal,, & i'm sure not going to cut the hawken butt plate off... I've got one of these ordered.. (past recoil pad to wear on the shoulder,, not much recoils stiffer than 3 inch mag turkey gun.. this will probably work well? Past recoil pad shield that one wears on the shoulder.... gonna try it with the hawken brass butt & find out??

 

[Rob Lynch]

I know a few guys that use the leather shoulder pad and they say it works well. Yeah 3 inch turkey shells are no joke.

I think I am going with a 40 caliber for my Hawkens. Still not sure yet.

 

[exarcher]

a buddy of mine had some 3.5 inch magnum turkey loads & i shot one out of his camo mossberg pump turkey gun,, i banged my own nose with my thumb knuckle with that mule!!

By the way,, somebody asked (somewhere i can't locate now) what steel was used in the rice barrel,,, It is 4140... i hadn't heard of anything but 4140 or stainless before that... guess the old barrels were closer to "iron"???

 

[exarcher]

Here is a photo of my "Patching Board" I took one of my wifes plastic cutting boards that had grooves in it and taped/glued the little steel ruler to it. lay the bullet in the groove, with patch lined up long ways by the ruler & roll it away from you... it works great!! (idea, taken from "The paper Jacket") the bullet is a 400 grain swaged .444 cup based (paper patch bullet) from buffalo arms, to be patched next.. i decided to buy a paper cutter instead of using the exacto knife on my next patches. (from 9lb onion paper bought from brownells from Rob lynch's post early in this thread/conversation.)

 

[Rob Lynch]

Easy enough for sure. I had a chance to start reading some of the Paper Jacket while I was out of town this week at a show. Very interesting read thus far.