45 cal rice barrel should be here soon!

[drpatton]

They recommend a factor from 1.3 to 2 as stabilized.

Are you saying this bullet is "Over Stabilized?"

 

[Rob Lynch]

Are you saying this bullet is "Over Stabilized?"

No not at all, really was just showing that if someone wanted to see what their stability factor was, the JBM site has a free software you could use to help determine that. Probably should have stated that before.
It's also interesting to see what happens when you play with the numbers for different bullet weights and sizes.

 

[exarcher]

The barrel arrived today,,, i unpacked it to look at it & find it is actually an 18 twist barrel,, which is fine with me,, I decided to go ahead & send it for blueing, so packed it back up.. I've decided to name it "Tick Licker 2".... When i was growing up, one of my favorite tv shows was Daniel Boone, with Fess Parker, his rifle was named tick licker.... Kind of considered "Betsy" too,, since Davy Crockett's grandparents were killed (by indians) and buried in my home town of Rogersville, Tn. & his birth place is not far away either. . idaholewis naming his barrel "eleanor" gave me the idea.. I hadn't even thought of that before seeing his... Sending it for blueing now, i should have it back in a month,, & will have plenty of time to play with it before the fall deer season...

 

[bronko220002]

check this out from Berger bullets. I plugged in the figures of .451" BC=.250, 1800 fps, bullet length 1.0" & 340 gr, 1:18 twist. Its even stable at 1600 fps. Actually I underestimated the BC as it was calculated out to be .394 which increased stablility even more.
https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

 

[exarcher]

at the prices that some are asking for the old GM LRH drop ins, these Rice drop ins will sell just fine. Im saving up some $ for one.

i saw a t/c hawken with an extra barrel (GM LRH) go for a little over $500 on an auction site a few days ago!! somebody did good,, I don't think the seller knew what he had??

 

[idahoron]

I wouldn't take this price for mine. But I have no intention to sell.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I wouldn't take this price for mine. But I have no intention to sell.

I couldn't package mine up fast enough for that much dough. Its nice, but not that nice.

 

[idahoron]

I couldn't package mine up fast enough for that much dough. Its nice, but not that nice.

A few years ago I was offered an insane amount of money for my Hawken. A guy from out of state drew a trophy mule deer tag here in Idaho. He wanted a rifle fully sighted in and ready to go out to Long range.
He offered me 1500 for my 45 Hawken. I told him I couldn't replace the gun for that price.
He offered any muzzleloader I wanted and 1500. I still turned him down.
I couldn't replace that gun. Stainless steel fast twist barrels are just not out there. The ones that are bring big money. Especially the 45's.
I have two 50 Renegade rifles. One 45 Renegade. And one 45 Hawken.

 

[exarcher]

A few years ago I was offered an insane amount of money for my Hawken. A guy from out of state drew a trophy mule deer tag here in Idaho. He wanted a rifle fully sighted in and ready to go out to Long range.
He offered me 1500 for my 45 Hawken. I told him I couldn't replace the gun for that price.
He offered any muzzleloader I wanted and 1500. I still turned him down.
I couldn't replace that gun. Stainless steel fast twist barrels are just not out there. The ones that are bring big money. Especially the 45's.
I have two 50 Renegade rifles. One 45 Renegade. And one 45 Hawken.

you could get an octagon blank from mcgowen for $320,, It wouldn't be too hard to find a breech plug & hardware... I would have sold in a "New York Minute". i bet you cold get the barrel built for much less than the blank cost for total of $600 or so..(this is stainless ) & still have $900 in your pocket. .. i've only seen one stainless hawken for sale though a yr or 2 ago... & i just didn't have the $ for it at the time...seems like it went for around 750.. A buyer as motivated as yours don't come around often... but you know what makes you happy!!

 

[idahoron]

you could get an octagon blank from mcgowen for $320,, It wouldn't be too hard to find a breech plug & hardware... I would have sold in a "New York Minute". i bet you cold get the barrel built for much less than the blank cost for total of $600 or so..(this is stainless ) & still have $900 in your pocket. .. i've only seen one stainless hawken for sale though a yr or 2 ago... & i just didn't have the $ for it at the time...seems like it went for around 750.. A buyer as motivated as yours don't come around often... but you know what makes you happy!!

Stainless is so much easier to maintain and clean. But let's say I have one built for 600. Then I would have to buy a donor rifle. The prices locally is 350 to 500. So let's say it is 350. 600+350 now the replacement is 950 dollars. It needs a Lyman 57sml peep. These are unavailable now but let's say 120 with shipping. Now we are at 1070. A Lyman 17aml globe with Lee Shavers BPCR inserts is going to be about 70. Now we are at 1140. An after market ram rod another 20, and a limb saver recoil pad and instilation roughly 100 bucks installed. Now that is at 1260.00
Now that price might be a little higher or a little lower. His offer wouldn't replace the rifle. It would get something close. But what if it simply didn't shoot as well.
I simply value my rifles higher. They shoot well out to 300 yards. My last 45 I put together shoots well out to 500 so far. That one has sights that cost just under 600 dollars.
My rifles are worth way more to me than cash. Hell they are Insured for 3000 each.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Stainless is so much easier to maintain and clean. But let's say I have one built for 600. Then I would have to buy a donor rifle. The prices locally is 350 to 500. So let's say it is 350. 600+350 now the replacement is 950 dollars. It needs a Lyman 57sml peep. These are unavailable now but let's say 120 with shipping. Now we are at 1070. A Lyman 17aml globe with Lee Shavers BPCR inserts is going to be about 70. Now we are at 1140. An after market ram rod another 20, and a limb saver recoil pad and instilation roughly 100 bucks installed. Now that is at 1260.00
Now that price might be a little higher or a little lower. His offer wouldn't replace the rifle. It would get something close. But what if it simply didn't shoot as well.
I simply value my rifles higher. They shoot well out to 300 yards. My last 45 I put together shoots well out to 500 so far. That one has sights that cost just under 600 dollars.
My rifles are worth way more to me than cash. Hell they are Insured for 3000 each.

Now you’ve made me think about how much $ i actually have into my Renegade.

I don’t like to think about that.

 

[idahoron]

Now you’ve made me think about how much $ i actually have into my Renegade.

I don’t like to think about that.

And that price doesn't include the cost of bullets, powder, and caps to sight in at every 50 yards out to 300 yards. I sell my bullets at 1.50 each.

 

[Harleysboss]

Ron has very good points. A lot of the support pieces like sights etc for this type of muzzleloader are getting extremely hard if not impossible to get. I’ve got one rifle set up hot rod style with a 50 cal LRH. I’ve also got all the parts minus the barrel for a second full setup. I’m really kicking the can around about a new 50 cal Rice drop in. I’ve been saving some pennies!

 

[idahoron]

Ron has very good points. A lot of the support pieces like sights etc for this type of muzzleloader are getting extremely hard if not impossible to get. I’ve got one rifle set up hot rod style with a 50 cal LRH. I’ve also got all the parts minus the barrel for a second full setup. I’m really kicking the can around about a new 50 cal Rice drop in. I’ve been saving some pennies!

I have another stock that is set up and sights ready. I took the barrel off that stock and gave it to Lewis. I have 7 muzzleloaders so I'm not planning to set up any more
The price things are I should sell a few of the ones I don't use.

 

[exarcher]

Stainless is so much easier to maintain and clean. But let's say I have one built for 600. Then I would have to buy a donor rifle. The prices locally is 350 to 500. So let's say it is 350. 600+350 now the replacement is 950 dollars. It needs a Lyman 57sml peep. These are unavailable now but let's say 120 with shipping. Now we are at 1070. A Lyman 17aml globe with Lee Shavers BPCR inserts is going to be about 70. Now we are at 1140. An after market ram rod another 20, and a limb saver recoil pad and instilation roughly 100 bucks installed. Now that is at 1260.00
Now that price might be a little higher or a little lower. His offer wouldn't replace the rifle. It would get something close. But what if it simply didn't shoot as well.
I simply value my rifles higher. They shoot well out to 300 yards. My last 45 I put together shoots well out to 500 so far. That one has sights that cost just under 600 dollars.
My rifles are worth way more to me than cash. Hell they are Insured for 3000 each.

I wouldn't have sold for that either with the sights / setup you have,,, my thoughts were with regard to a regular (not long range target sights) set up rig..

 

[drpatton]

I have two 50 Renegade rifles. One 45 Renegade. And one 45 Hawken.

I take it, they were not T/C barrels on either the Renegades or Hawken. I'm not aware of any stock barrels with twists faster then 1:48 on either model. Are the barrels Green Mountain or Rice?

 

[drpatton]

I only have 3 drop in barrels for my T/C Renegades. One is a Rice .50 with a 1:24 twist, and the other two I have are GM .54s with 1:66 & 1:70 twists

Does the .45 inherently stand out from the .50 & .54 for Long Range? If so, why?

 

[idahoron]

I take it, they were not T/C barrels on either the Renegades or Hawken. I'm not aware of any stock barrels with twists faster then 1:48 on either model. Are the barrels Green Mountain or Rice?

I take it, they were not T/C barrels on either the Renegades or Hawken. I'm not aware of any stock barrels with twists faster then 1:48 on either model. Are the barrels Green Mountain or Rice?

No, none of my rifles have factory barrels. After I posted the screen shot of the green mountain barrel I kind of assumed when I said I wouldn't take that for mine, people would know we were talking about green mountain stainless steel fast twist barrels.

 

[idahoron]

I only have 3 drop in barrels for my T/C Renegades. One is a Rice .50 with a 1:24 twist, and the other two I have are GM .54s with 1:66 & 1:70 twists

Does the .45 inherently stand out from the .50 & .54 for Long Range? If so, why?

45 cal rifles are commonly used in long range shooting and have been for over 100 years. I'm not aware of any 50's but they might be. I'm sure no 54 is used for long range as far as official shoots go, but I could be wrong.
The 45's just have a larger selection of better bullets to choose for long range. Higher ballistic coefficient, and probably many other reasons.

 

[exarcher]

So far the 450gr Paper patch bullets from BACO have shot the best in my Rice Barrel with 85gr of Swiss 2f. I have a 32inch 18 twist for my TC Renegade as well. I have other bullets I am casting and have had good results as well, but not as good as the BACO bullets.

i just completed paper patching a box of the 500grain swaged bullets from baco... seems i'm getting better the more i do (makes sense!)... Does anybody know how critical the patch length is??? ie i got some a little long & exposes the lead in the base hollow point. none of em will allow lead to touch the barrel,, which sounds better than the alternative, at least to me.... The 2 wraps bring up the .444's to .449.. hopefully perfect for the new barrel,,, i'll size em down a little if i have to though.. i will still be using a powder covering wad.. As i get better they will all end up the same... but i'll test a few with the little opening to see if the go "out of group"... now.. for the barrel to get back from blueing, (something i was going to do, but decided against since i sold an old toy)... These should hit hard on both ends!! anybody sell a pad for the hawken style stock???