A home for the fourty.

[Matthew323]

That looks great. I need to stop reading this kind of stuff .
I have a 1" tc barrel that is 54 caliber I have thought about sending to Hoyt and having it reamed to a 58 caliber with a 1:48 twist like an original Hawken barrel.

Or, ask Mr. Hoyt about having his gain twist cut with Forsyth-style rifling. Instead of a fixed rate of twist. The shallow grooves would be approximately 0.006" deep, and coupled with a 1.75:1 ratio gain twist (approximate for a 28" long barrel), would allow for the use of both patched balls, and lead conicals. In a .58 caliber bore, Forsyth rifling would look something like this......

.58 caliber
0.580" bore diameter
0.006" deep square bottom grooves
0.592" groove diameter
5-groove Forsyth rifling
7:1 ratio, of groove width, to land width
1.75:1 ratio gain twist
1 turn in 70" rate of twist at the breech
1 turn in 40" rate of twist at the muzzle

Circumference equals Pi times diameter
C= πd
C= 3.14 × 0.580" bore diameter
C= 1.8212"
1.8212" ÷ 5 (groove rifling) = 0.36424"
0.36424" ÷ 8 (7:1 ratio) = 0.04553"
0.04553" = the width of each of the 5 lands
0.04553" × 7 (to 1 ratio) = 0.31871"
0.31871" = the width of each of the 5 grooves

With a standard slow rate of twist, such as 1:96"-to-1:144" common to a Forsyth rifle; the very shallow grooves allow for a very tightly patched ball, wrapped in a very thick linen patch, to be shot at some pretty high velocities utilizing very large (125 grains-200 grains) powder charges of ffg black powder. Velocities approaching 2000 feet per second are possible, albeit with heavy recoil. Weights for .58 caliber Forsyth rifles need to be no less than 9.5 pounds in order to mitigate the recoil of the heaviest loads.

It is my belief that if you take the shallow grooves of the Forsyth rifling, and couple it with a gain twist such as described above, then a shooter would end up with the most versatile rifle possible.

With 0.024"-0.030" thick cotton duck canvas, or linen canvas, patching material that is coupled with a smaller than normal ball diameter (0.015" under bore diameter), the shooter will be able to completely fill the wide, shallow grooves with material, thus creating a full seal.

A ball/patch combination like this will not require a short starter. Thumb pressure, and
the rifle's onboard ramrod will easily seat the ball onto the powder charge.

The other obvious advantage of the 0.006" deep shallow grooves, and a gain twist going from 1:70" at the breech, to 1:40" at the muzzle, is that such a gain twist will stabilize just about any .58 caliber lead conical that a shooter could find a mold for. To include hollow base Minie ball conicals.

Such a barrel would handle powder charges ranging from a low of about 50 grains with the lightest of the lead conicals, all the way up to about 125 grains for conicals & balls alike.

 

[bstorric]

Or, ask Mr. Hoyt about having his gain twist cut with Forsyth-style rifling. Instead of a fixed rate of twist. The shallow grooves would be approximately 0.006" deep, and coupled with a 1.75:1 ratio gain twist (approximate for a 28" long barrel), would allow for the use of both patched balls, and lead conicals. In a .58 caliber bore, Forsyth rifling would look something like this......

.58 caliber
0.580" bore diameter
0.006" deep square bottom grooves
0.592" groove diameter
5-groove Forsyth rifling
7:1 ratio, of groove width, to land width
1.75:1 ratio gain twist
1 turn in 70" rate of twist at the breech
1 turn in 40" rate of twist at the muzzle

Circumference equals Pi times diameter
C= πd
C= 3.14 × 0.580" bore diameter
C= 1.8212"
1.8212" ÷ 5 (groove rifling) = 0.36424"
0.36424" ÷ 8 (7:1 ratio) = 0.04553"
0.04553" = the width of each of the 5 lands
0.04553" × 7 (to 1 ratio) = 0.31871"
0.31871" = the width of each of the 5 grooves

With a standard slow rate of twist, such as 1:96"-to-1:144" common to a Forsyth rifle; the very shallow grooves allow for a very tightly patched ball, wrapped in a very thick linen patch, to be shot at some pretty high velocities utilizing very large (125 grains-200 grains) powder charges of ffg black powder. Velocities approaching 2000 feet per second are possible, albeit with heavy recoil. Weights for .58 caliber Forsyth rifles need to be no less than 9.5 pounds in order to mitigate the recoil of the heaviest loads.

It is my belief that if you take the shallow grooves of the Forsyth rifling, and couple it with a gain twist such as described above, then a shooter would end up with the most versatile rifle possible.

With 0.024"-0.030" thick cotton duck canvas, or linen canvas, patching material that is coupled with a smaller than normal ball diameter (0.015" under bore diameter), the shooter will be able to completely fill the wide, shallow grooves with material, thus creating a full seal.

A ball/patch combination like this will not require a short starter. Thumb pressure, and
the rifle's onboard ramrod will easily seat the ball onto the powder charge.

The other obvious advantage of the 0.006" deep shallow grooves, and a gain twist going from 1:70" at the breech, to 1:40" at the muzzle, is that such a gain twist will stabilize just about any .58 caliber lead conical that a shooter could find a mold for. To include hollow base Minie ball conicals.

Such a barrel would handle powder charges ranging from a low of about 50 grains with the lightest of the lead conicals, all the way up to about 125 grains for conicals & balls alike.

I wonder how he cuts the grooves in a gain twist? I’d love to see his shop, I’m sure a feller could learn a lot from a man like that. I was just thinking about a gain twist the other week. I know high end air guns, like FX, use something similar in there air guns to help stabilize pellets more consistently. So I started wondering if the same process is possible with Muzzleloaders….now I have my answer

 

[Bad Karma]

I wonder how he cuts the grooves in a gain twist? I’d love to see his shop, I’m sure a feller could learn a lot from a man like that. I was just thinking about a gain twist the other week. I know high end air guns, like FX, use something similar in there air guns to help stabilize pellets more consistently. So I started wondering if the same process is possible with Muzzleloaders….now I have my answer

He’s been at this a very long time and in some circles, people just don’t use anyone else. He’s also got the fastest turnaround time of any smith I’m aware of. How he does that and keeps his quality first rate I have no idea. I’m told that he’s got an apprentice now and I hope that’s true.

 

[bstorric]

He’s the only one I’m going to send my barrels to as well. I recommend him to anyone I talk to about getting a barrel relined or bored out. My barrels have had about a month turn around time. I believe he can get them done even faster if you have them bored out vs relined