A Lesson in What NOT to Do . . .

[Anonymous]

send to me, excepted from elsewhere:
Not wanting to jump the gun, I've waited to post this in the event any "bugs" popped up. They haven't.

The load is: (In the exact order of the list below)

50 grains of Vit 110
28 ga trimmed wad
2 - 50 cal. vegetable fiber wads (from Cabela's)
1 - DRY or lubed 50 cal felt wad
1 - DRY 45 cal felt wad pressed into the base of the sabot with Shoe-goo
245 grain Barnes spit fire with supplied sabot

Velocity is a very consistent 2550. (Rare readings below 2530 or over 2570) and groups have hovered in the 1 to 1 1/2 inch range with point of impact remaining basically the same. 15 to 20 minutes between shots.

Sabots are indexed so that there are always 2 lands on each petal

MMP sub-bases have been substituted for the 45 cal felt wad and the results, although OK, are not as good as with the 45 cal DRY felt wad.

The shoe goo (used sparingly) holds the 45 cal DRY wad securely in the sabot base during loading. The shoe goo will not adhere to a 45 cal wad with wonder lube.

There are words for this amazing level of imbecility; but none suited for this forum.

There is nothing like "safe, clean, & simple."

At least, this is nothing like it at all. uke:

 

[DeerNut]

50 grains of VV n110 alone seems kinda crazy, not too mention the massive projectile he's sticking in front of it!! Yikes....is this for real? Is the guy still alive and how long does it take to put that horrendous load together?
isn't there an award for this....the Darwin Award?

The only thing that slightly intrigued me was..

Sabots are indexed so that there are always 2 lands on each petal

Would this do anything? Is this for more consistent accuracy?

 

[Anonymous]

Would this do anything? Is this for more consistent accuracy?

It does nothing that I have ever seen. Centering the lands in the center of the petal is used by some, but I can't say that that helps accuracy, either.

I suppose you would be better off sorting your greased fiber wads and trimmed 28 ga. wads by weight, though. :shock:

 

[DeerNut]

better of sorting your greased fiber wads and trimmed 28 ga. wads by weight, though

:lol:

 

[Mountain Man]

In case anyone is in doubt, when this was posted on "that other board," the person who posted this was told on the bulletin board and in pm's that this was a bad, bad idea. Personally, I've never shot over 43 grains of N110, and that didn't shoot well anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

On a related N110 note, I've had several calls in the last week about the Ultra Light Arms muzzleloader-- and horrible accuracy.

Naturally, I had to plead ignorance because I've never, ever shot one . . . and the only person qualified to speak from experience is Chuck Hill.

In all cases, these guys were shooting 42 - 44 grains of N110 / 250 gr. sabot. All I could say it that it sounded like way, way, way too much-- and, just guessing, they should start at 34 grains and work up.

In the last three cases, the 12-16 inch grouping kicking monsters instantly became shooters. One fellow saw his groups start to open at 37 grains, so he went back to 36 grains and now I believe that is where he is at for good.

Sometimes, less really is more.

 

[big6x6]

Naturally, I had to plead ignorance because I've never, ever shot one . . . and the only person qualified to speak from experience is Chuck Hill.

Why don't you foward them my email addy or my phone number?

 

[Anonymous]

I would have course forwarded to the honorable pharmacological philanthropist, the new Gadfly of Athens, with the speed of a wounded gerbil.

But, it was all harried phone calls wanting instant answers: range today, hunt tomorrow scenario. I don't think Melvin sends out any manual at all with his ML'ers-- at least these fellows didn't get one.

 

[big6x6]

I would have course forwarded to the honorable pharmacological philanthropist, the new Gadfly of Athens, with the speed of a wounded gerbil.

But, it was all harried phone calls wanting instant answers: range today, hunt tomorrow scenario

Okay... So can you foward me their names OR what city they are from? Give me EITHER of those and I'll call Melvin and we'll track down the owners.

 

[SW]

send to me, excepted from elsewhere:
Not wanting to jump the gun, I've waited to post this in the event any "bugs" popped up. They haven't.

The load is: (In the exact order of the list below)

50 grains of Vit 110
28 ga trimmed wad
2 - 50 cal. vegetable fiber wads (from Cabela's)
1 - DRY or lubed 50 cal felt wad
1 - DRY 45 cal felt wad pressed into the base of the sabot with Shoe-goo
245 grain Barnes spit fire with supplied sabot

Velocity is a very consistent 2550. (Rare readings below 2530 or over 2570) and groups have hovered in the 1 to 1 1/2 inch range with point of impact remaining basically the same. 15 to 20 minutes between shots.

Sabots are indexed so that there are always 2 lands on each petal

MMP sub-bases have been substituted for the 45 cal felt wad and the results, although OK, are not as good as with the 45 cal DRY felt wad.

The shoe goo (used sparingly) holds the 45 cal DRY wad securely in the sabot base during loading. The shoe goo will not adhere to a 45 cal wad with wonder lube.

There are words for this amazing level of imbecility; but none suited for this forum.

There is nothing like "safe, clean, & simple."

At least, this is nothing like it at all. uke:

RW,
We totally agree that this is a very unacceptable load concocked by one who would do much better with book loads. We are all ignorant, just in different areas - I think we have figured out where one area of ignorance is.

 

[big6x6]

I would have course forwarded to the honorable pharmacological philanthropist, the new Gadfly of Athens, with the speed of a wounded gerbil.

But, it was all harried phone calls wanting instant answers: range today, hunt tomorrow scenario

Okay... So can you foward me their names OR what city they are from? Give me EITHER of those and I'll call Melvin and we'll track down the owners.

I'm sorry Randy.. you must have missed my response. I just want to know ANY specific info concerning the OWNERS(should be at LEAST THREE owners as you say) of the ULA that were getting bad accuracy that called you. You have caller ID so unless they contacted you by carrier pigeon or smoke signal you have a name and phone number. I would like to call them and foward their info to Melvin Forbes. I'm sure he is interested in their horrible accuracy as you put it.


Patiently waiting on your reply...

 

[dwhunter]

 

[big6x6]

On a related N110 note, I've had several calls in the last week about the Ultra Light Arms muzzleloader-- and horrible accuracy.

EXACTLY what I THOUGHT! NO phone calls, NO horrible accuracy, and NO creditability on your part. There's been a lot of that lately.

 

[Grouse]

On a related N110 note, I've had several calls in the last week about the Ultra Light Arms muzzleloader-- and horrible accuracy.

 

[Anonymous]

EXACTLY what I THOUGHT! NO phone calls, NO horrible accuracy, and NO creditability on your part. There's been a lot of that lately.

It is a shame that you did not apparently read what I wrote. Not only did I leave a message about this on the voice mail of the gentleman from Alabama, I e-mailed Melvin Forbes about this as well ... feel free to call him and ask him personally.

After you do, it should be quite obvious if someone needs to apologize here.

 

[Anonymous]

What's his email address?
_________________
Chuck
NRA Life Member

[email protected]

 

[big6x6]

EXACTLY what I THOUGHT! NO phone calls, NO horrible accuracy, and NO creditability on your part. There's been a lot of that lately.

It is a shame that you did not apparently read what I wrote. Not only did I leave a message about this on the voice mail of the gentleman from Alabama, I e-mailed Melvin Forbes about this as well ... feel free to call him and ask him personally.

After you do, it should be quite obvious if someone needs to apologize here.

In all cases, these guys were shooting 42 - 44 grains of N110 / 250 gr. sabot. All I could say it that it sounded like way, way, way too much-- and, just guessing, they should start at 34 grains and work up.

In the last three cases, the 12-16 inch grouping kicking monsters instantly became shooters. One fellow saw his groups start to open at 37 grains, so he went back to 36 grains and now I believe that is where he is at for good.

ANYONE...that got THIS much info from someone and into THIS depth of conversation got:
1. A phone number. If THEY called(at least 3 of them, REMEMBER?) YOU have it!
2. A name..
3. PROBABLY a city...

So how about it? Give me ANY of those and I'll be HAPPY to verify ALL of this and IF I'm wrong....I will GLADLY apologize... Only seventy guns out there, it will be EASY to verify!

No doubt you called Melvin...who do you NOT call?

BTW...That email address did you use at ULA?

 

[Anonymous]

Your assumption that I have "caller ID" on all my phones is incorrect, and really has nothing to do with this thread. Nor would I publicly their post personal names or phone numbers even if I had them. The point of the thread, was, and is-- that less can be more, and there is no reason to seek the highest powder charge possible.

Far from a "complaint" or negative commentary about a NULA muzzleloader, it was mentioned as a happy ending. Formerly unhappy customers that were shooting N110 with resultant poor accuracy, have since found their muzzleloaders to be 1" shooters just by dropping the charge from a "recommended" :?: 42 or 44 grains to 34 or 35 grains of N110-- with no other changes.

Hopefully that, and using moderate charges in the 10ML-II mentioned in several places will help folks lessen their frustration with a new frontloader.

Most of the folks that call me direct get my number from my website, which links to this one and invites those who wish to talk smokeless muzzleloading to join in here if they wish. Anyone is of course free to do so; many have done just that.

 

[Grouse]

Far from a "complaint" or negative commentary about a NULA muzzleloader, it was mentioned as a happy ending.

Anybody who read what you posted know's it was a BASH against Ultralight Arms. Why you made such a comment Baffles me. ULA will never hurt Savage sales. It's almost double the price. I really hope you get back on track soon Randy.

 

[big6x6]

Your assumption that I have "caller ID" on all my phones is incorrect

You only have to have caller ID on ONE phone to know who is calling. Duhh. Still I bet you have it on all of them. Are phones even MADE without a caller ID display these days? The cheapest phone at Circuit City ($14.99) has it.

Nor would I publicly their post personal names or phone numbers even if I had them.

Okay..here's that solution..Just email them to Patrick or myself. You didn't have a problem posting ULA email address.

Far from a "complaint" or negative commentary about a NULA muzzleloader

SURE it was.. That's EXACTLY what it was. In fact the ULA had NOTHING, NOTHING to do with this post until you introduced it. Going back over your original inclusion of the ULA I find that I DID misread and that there were MORE than 3 users with incidences of
horrible accuracy and in only the LAST THREE CASES the 12-16 inch grouping kicking monsters. So that means that at the very LEAST you claim four owners of the ULA muzzleloader called you to ask advice and that in THREE instances, you were their savior. Just foward the names/numbers to Patrick or I and I'll clear this up and do whatever is necessary. If nothing else, I am EAGER to talk to fellow ULA owners and share likes/dislikes. How easy is that? I am EAGER to put this post to bed.

In all cases, these guys were shooting 42 - 44 grains of N110 / 250 gr. sabot. All I could say it that it sounded like way, way, way too much-- and, just guessing, they should start at 34 grains and work up.

To set the record straight from someone that isn't ignorant and DOES own a ULA muzzleloader and HAS used charges of N-110 from 36gr THRU 42gr I can tell you that 42gr ISN'T way, way, way too much and in fact 42gr IS the load I use and it is VERY accurate with a 225 AND 250gr sabots.