Alliant Black MZ BP substitute

[jeepman1]

Well Alliant powders is listing there black MZ powder on there site now. apparently they bought the rights from the makers of black mag 3. which got rave reviews, but was really hard to get your hands on. hopefully Alliant has made even more improvements on it, well just have to see. if nothing else it will be competition for BH209 and that usually causes prices to go down.. :lol:

 

[a1smokepole1]

black MZ is sugar base powder like T7 blackhorn is not

 

[jeepman1]

black MZ is sugar base powder like T7 blackhorn is not

Yes sir your correct. but black MZ doesn't require swabbing between shots either. and if packaged in 1lb containers will cost less per shot also. i am a BH209 fan, this is just another alternative and if it's as good as it was when tested. it will give BH209 a run for the money, which will more than likely force western to lower it's prices. that's a wim win for everyone :lol: http://www.chuckhawks.com/black_mag3.htm Ray

 

[Troy Whiteneck]

I bought 3 jugs of Black Mag 3 back in August of 2010 and paid the hazmat fee to have it shipped to me. Used Remington STS primers. I got a really bad crud ring at the breech plug and noticed one forming at the end of the muzzle. Loading a bullet started hard and then got smooth as it went down. Started swabbing between shots and the crud ring still got me. Had to remove the breech plug to get the rod and patch out. Switch to Blackhorn 209 and haven't looked back.

 

[jeepman1]

Well a member on another forum a lot of us visit has a jug of this powder coming. i am eager to see the results of his testing once he tries it out! Ray

 

[Muley Hunter]

Sugar based means crud ring. No thanks.

 

[jeepman1]

Sugar based means crud ring. No thanks.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/black_mag3.htm Well Pete, if it's anything like this version when tested it will be a good powder. it also sounds like Alliant improved on the old version in many ways. Omega 45 spoke to them and was told you can get a average of 9 shots off, before swabbing is required. this is real interesting to me for conical shooting, since Pyrodex is so damn dirty and 777 requires swabbing after every shot. let's see what individual testing does before we make any kind of a decision about it's actual performance. Ray

 

[plateshooter1]

I bought a bottle of Black MZ last week. So far, I have shot about 40 rounds through my TC Impact, and 40 rounds today through my Green Mtn round ball barrel. I had no problems with crud rings, burnt patches, or hard loading. It ignited well with 209 and caps. So far, I really like the stuff. It is cheaper around here than 777 which is a bonus. Clean up was super easy. The same as 777.

 

[hawgslayer1]

:no: :no:

Someone told me that it's APP/JSG under another name made by BPI. I used to use APP/JSG along with REM. STS primers and had nothing but head aches. CRUD/BURN RING. :evil: :twisted: Had to clean more then shoot. A white crud ring used to form at the muzzle and starting the next bullet became a problem. ( Just my .02 cents ) :!:

Ray......... :no:

 

[exMember]

The black mz is american pioneer. Alliant i think was going to use Black Mag powder and call it Black Dot, but the black mag powder company went up in a huge fireball. Alliant had to fill the cans with something.

 

[Omega451]

All you need to know about Black MZ. It's American Pioneer in a new bottle.
http://frontiermuzzleloadin.forumotion.com/t2591-aliant-black-mz

 

[plateshooter1]

Some folks have had problems with BH209, some people have problems with APP. I have had problems with 777 in one of my rifles. I don't care what Black MZ was, is, or how it came to be. If a powder works for you in your rifle for your loads, go for it. Enjoy the sport. I sure do.

 

[MeatMachine]

I wouldn't believe a word from that guy on Hawks!

 

[VAKnight]

If you use your muzzle loader for hunting...what is really the big deal about a crud ring? Most states limit you to one or two deer per day. How many times do you really need to shoot to accomplish that?

Now if you are using the ML for plinking or an afternoon of target paractice, now that is a different story.

For myself, I have played with BH209 and never really fell in love with it. I never got really good groups with my powerbelts. Since I am primarily a hunter with a muzzle loader, it seems to make things a bit more complex to deal with the loose over pellets. I have never really had issues with my Accura and 3 shots with crud (45 cal - 275 gr HP PB - 3 777 pellets). After 3, however, things get more difficult without cleaning.

Not trying to step on anyones toes here, just saying, in a hunting situation if you have to shoot more than 3 shots to down your game, maybe there are other issues. I have dropped way over 30 deer with one shot kills. No deer have ever taken 2 shots and I have never lost one with a muzzle loader.

So...in a hunting situation...is the crud ring really that critical of an issue? To me...not really. Maybe I am just the oddball.

 

[GregK1]

I'd like to try that or a clean FFFG substitute in my old Knight Mk95 Mag Elite. The posi fire ignition on this gun is too hot with BH209, even though it's very accurate. The ignition cracks the 38 cal plastic casings that hold the primers. The rest of my front stuffers are all BH209 equipped. I like the clean up better, have had great consistency & accuracy, & it's not moisture sensitive. That's just my preference. I shoot what works for me Plus...this past summer & fall I burned up about 15 cans of BH209 on the range. That's a LOT of shooting!

 

[patocazador]

I'm new to the board and just read about Alliant Black MZ in Field & Stream. They made it sound like it was a less expensive substitute for Blackhorn 209 because of the properties they listed .. non-hygroscopic, non-corrosive, etc.

I love Blackhorn 209. Until BH 209 I tried all the substitutes and kept going back to 3FG blackpowder due to ignition problems in my Hawken. I finally retro-fitted it with a Mag-Spark so I could use BH 209. I'm as happy as a clam now. I was just hoping that Alliant Black MZ was a BH 209 clone that was cheaper but I guess that was a pipe dream.

 

[StarGazer1]

I have been through about half a can of it so far. It seems to leave a crud ring similar, but slightly softer than 777. Cleanup with Windex is quick and easy. I am not sure exactly what it is made of but it chronos very close to 777. Accuracy is above average but not spectacular. I am using a CVA Optima and typically run 90gr. with a 320gr REAL over a lubed felt wad. My groups average 2" @ 50yrds with open sights. The irregular shaped granules sometimes get stuck in my brass measuring spout and I have to shake it a bit to get them to flow. Just my $0.02.

 

[exMember]

yeah those REALs are not the best to use in the 1:28, especially with blackhorn209. Maxiballs are real good but typically need a fouling shot.