Barnes Expander bullet questions

[bigbuck28]

I used to just buy the sabot and bullet combo on the shelf. So I’m looking for some guidance from you guys.
I love shooting the 200 gr bullets now, currently shooting the PR dead center. But am looking at the Barnes expander in 45 cal 195gr . They don’t offer it with a 50 cal sabot.

Am I correct in my understanding that I can purchase the Barnes Expander MZ bullet in 45 caliber and put it in a 50 cal Harvester Sabot? Im shooting a Tradtions Vortex strike fire with a 1:28 twist. artyman: Thanks for the info you guys are great.

 

[WV Hunter]

To use a .40 cal bullet in your .50 cal rifle, you need a .50/.40 sabot. They are thicker than the .50/.45 you are probably used to. How they would shoot, I couldn't say. Personally I've never shot any .40's out of a .50

 

[WPrather]

I haven’t ever shot a 40 out of a 50cal either. But Harvester does make 50/40 sabots that you could use. You would just have to try them and see how they shoot.

 

[rangerod]

I tried some 40 cal bullets inside of a 50 cal sabot ( I don't remember which gun) and results were lousy. I think that thick of a stiff sabot wasn't allowing the sabot to separate from the bullet soon enough. Imho the thinner the sabot the better the accuracy.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

I tried some 40 cal bullets inside of a 50 cal sabot ( I don't remember which gun) and results were lousy. I think that thick of a stiff sabot wasn't allowing the sabot to separate from the bullet soon enough. Imho the thinner the sabot the better the accuracy.

I totally agree with your statement. Although i guess there must be exceptions to the rule . My father had a CVA Optima that gave me fits .I tried numerous sabot and bullet combinations , loads ,cleaning between shots ect... As a last resort I had some 180 grain Dead Center QT bullets with 75 grains of Blackhorn 209. I could not believe the accuracy. Literally 1 hole at 50 and less than 1MOA at 100 yards. Gun even shot better with 50 to 40 Harvester sabots . This gun also shot 200 grain .40 SSTs very well with 50/40 Harvester sabots.

Im not in any way advocating shooting .40 cal bullets in a 50 cal muzzleloader. This combo will work and i have dublicated the same results with other rifles . The key is to push the .40 bullet just fast enough to shed the thick sabot but if you push this combo to hard things start fall apart again.

 

[MrTom]

I shoot 200 grain XTPs .40 cal in the .45 over anywhere from 63 to 77 weighed grains of BH209 in a plain blue sabot. Very, very accurate at 100 yards. The same bullets in any of the .50 cals I have and the 50/40 sabot from harvester really are not what I would consider a hunting load using the same powder charges as the 45. As Doug and Ranger have alluded to, the thicker walled sabots are suspect. I tried loads down to 60 grains by volume of the 209 powder and could not get decent 100 yard groups and gave up on it. The .45 rifle....a whole different story.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

To the OP yes Harvester does make a 50 cal sabot that will shoot .40 cal bullets

If you want to shoot a 200 grain bullet you may be better off using a Barnes .45 200 grain XPB bullet ,200 grain Bloodline or 200 grain Liegh bullet. The sabot will be thinner and easier to shed . A little less BC but that does not really matter inside of 200 yards.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

To the OP yes Harvester does make a 50 cal sabot that will shoot .40 cal bullets

If you want to shoot a 200 grain bullet you may be better off using a Barnes .45 200 grain XPB bullet ,.45 200 grain Bloodline or .45 200 grain Liegh bullet. The sabot will be thinner and easier to shed . A little less BC but that does not really matter inside of 200 yards.

 

[bacass]

We got off on the wrong foot guys, he's asking about the .45 cal. Barnes expander bullet.
Doug's suggestions above sound good though.

Edit: I think I see now. OP's post was edited to .45 cal. bullet without notation maybe.

 

[bigbuck28]

It has a big 45 cal labeled across it on the web site...
But WV hunter is correct its a .400 Diameter bullet so I was mistaken when i put 45.
It must have a 45 cal sabot to allow it to be shot out a of a 45.... Learned something else new!

Diameter .400
Weight 195
Length 0.9
S.D 0.174
B.C 100yd .176
Box QTY 15
Catalog #


I emailed barnes CS asking them if they plan to make a 50 cal or 45 cal 200 grain bullet. I did like the blood trail I got on my PR dead center but am scared to deform the bullet while loading. The plastic bullet seater is useless and issn threaded.. Any idea on how to attach it to the ram rod? I did have 2 flier rounds which must have happened bc i seated the bullet too aggressively.

 

[bigbuck28]

What about the XPB pistol bullets..

460 S&W
Diameter .451
Weight 200
Length 0.811
S.D 0.14
B.C 0.16
Box QTY 20
Catalog #

45 colt
Diameter .451
Weight 200
Length 0.757
S.D 0.14
Box QTY 20
Catalog #

Would these be good bullets for deer? Which ones better?
Just wondering because there pistol bullets. Forgive me for all my questions as I’m new to making my bullet /sabot combos but I want to learn and be educated in this. :huh?:

 

[WPrather]

The bullet for the 460 should be good for deer. Because a 460 shoots about the same speed as upper end muzzeloader rounds. The 45 colt round might work but the 45 colt is probably a lot thinner jacket and softer. Because the 45 colt operates on much slower speeds.

Hornady and Speer should have some pistol bullets that you could use to with the correct sabot. But I would look the bullet up and see what feet per second range that bullet was designed for. You don’t want them to be to hard and act like a fmj or to be to soft and just explode either.

It depends on how fast your planning on pushing them but any 44mag, 454 casull or 460 bullets should work on higher end muzzeloader charges.

 

[ShawnT]

. The plastic bullet seater is useless and issn threaded.. Any idea on how to attach it to the ram rod? I did have 2 flier rounds which must have happened bc i seated the bullet too aggressively.

If the Jag on your ramrod has a hole in it that is threaded you just screw the plastic seater jag into that hole. The post on the plastic jag is the right size to screw in, it will make its own threads. I have used them on the Dead centers and the QT with no problem. If your jag is not threaded you can try the other end of the rod and see if it will still slide into the stock. Next option is a new jag that fits Spitzer type bullets.

If you tried seating the lead PR bullets with a standard jag it most likely deformed them when seating.

 

[GM54-120]

The bullet for the 460 should be good for deer. Because a 460 shoots about the same speed as upper end muzzeloader rounds. The 45 colt round might work but the 45 colt is probably a lot thinner jacket and softer. Because the 45 colt operates on much slower speeds.

What?

There is no jacket on a Barnes XPB, its solid copper. The one for 460 has a tiny hollow point and the one for 45LC has a big hollow point. With the loads he wants to shoot the 460 would be a total waste of money. 80gr of BH209 aint gunna cut it. Ive personally shot the 45LC 225gr to over 2300fps and it retains over 200gr.

 

[bigbuck28]

All great info thanks!

So the long colt should be the bullet to select? I just wish theyd make a 200g TEZ for the 50....

 

[GM54-120]

Knight did have a 200gr Redhot that was sorta like a TEZ a very long time ago. Dont think it was tipped though. They had a few under 250gr IIRC. Like ive said before those tips are not gunna do anything for you with 80gr loads other than make them harder to expand.

Wanna see what can happen when a TEZ impacts too slow?

Here it is with the tip removed and impacting around 1200-1300fps

With the tip same load.

Regular Expander MZ

 

[sqezer]

Knight did have a 200gr Redhot that was sorta like a TEZ a very long time ago. Dont think it was tipped though. They had a few under 250gr IIRC. Like ive said before those tips are not gunna do anything for you with 80gr loads other than make them harder to expand.

Wanna see what can happen when a TEZ impacts too slow?

Here it is with the tip removed and impacting around 1200-1300fps

With the tip same load.

Regular Expander MZ

I have a lot of the 200 gr. RED HOTS but their not going any where's. :yeah: I still find them from time to time.

 

[GM54-120]

I seem to remember a 180gr, 200gr and a 225gr Redhot. All looked similar. Kinda like the 200gr XPB for 460S&W.