Barnes Expander Results & Q's - Any others' experiences?

[Mountain Man]

I got to the range today, got set up, went to load the rifle and found that I had somehow failed to get up the new box of 250 SSTs I bought a week or so ago. :x

Wasn't going to let the half-hour drive to the range go to waste, so I shot two groups with 250 grain Barnes MZ Expanders. First group I used 69 grains of IMR-4198 pushing bare HPH-24 sabots (with 250 SSTs, this gives me MOA or sub-MOA), but that only have me a 3.0" group. They loaded far too easily in my opinion, much more so than SSTs (which do better with HPH-24s), so I switched sabots.

Next group was with 69g IMR4198 pushing 250g Expanders in bare HPH-12 sabots. This time, the first two shots were close to touching. Third shot was a flyer 3.0" away! :? So, I shot a fourth shot and it landed right with the first two shots, for a 1.0" group, excluding the flyer. So, in summary, results with the 250 Expander were:

>>> 250g Expander, 69g IMR4198, HPH-24 = 3 shots @ 3.0".
>>> 250g Expander, 69g IMR4198, HPH-12 = 4 shots @ 3.0" (1.0" if you exclude flyer).

I'm not sure what to think about flyer, and the load itself for that matter. In the thick woods where I hunt the most, I would probably have a hard time finding a more effective and dependable bullet on deer, but the BC on the 250 Expander must be awful. Does anybody know just gow bad it is? Plus, at a dollar per bullet, I'm not sure if I really want to shoot enough of them to make sure the flyer was just a fluke.

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I also shot two groups with 300 Expanders, one with each sabot type, using 65g of IMR-4198.

>>> 300 Expander, HPH-24, 65g IMR4198 = 3 shots @ 2.25" (1.25" if you exclude the furthest out).
>>> 300 Expander, HPH-12, 65g IMR4198 = 4 shots @ 1.8" (1.5" if you exclude the furthest out).

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Even though it was fairly windy, these 300 grain Expanders spread vertically more than horizontally, even within the same sabot types. As mentioned on another thread, there was a noticeable difference in loading resistance, even with all the same HPH-12 sabots. I don't have a micrometer to check, but I am wondering if there is more variation in the OD on these slugs than the SSTs. Generally, the tighter loading ones shot lower than the easier loading ones.

On that topic... I thought Barnes Bullets were turned down (on a lathe, I presume) from solid copper stock? These Expanders (packaged as Knight Red Hots) have pits, dents, and marks on the outside that make them almost look like they were cast bullets. Has anybody else ever seen this?

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Have others had good or bad results with the Barnes Expanders?
I know Loggy killed that boar with one; I'm really interested in accuracy and trajectory feedback.

 

[Grouse]

If the price bothers you, buy some XTP'S. They will shoot and perform almost as well.

 

[Loggy]

MM,

I used 45 grains of AA 5744 & supplied sabot w/Barnes package. Bullets had no imperfections. I know that in Randy's Review of the Barnes 300 Grain Barnes Expander he had very good results with the bullet plus on some hunts.

Best of luck. I'm goin turkey huntin for a couple of days.

Link to RW's Review on the Barnes MZ Expanders that lead to me trying them. One fine bullet for sure!!

http://www.chuckhawks.com/barnes_expander_bullets.htm

 

[big6x6]

Next group was with 69g IMR4198 pushing 250g Expanders in bare HPH-12 sabots. This time, the first two shots were close to touching. Third shot was a flyer 3.0" away! So, I shot a fourth shot and it landed right with the first two shots, for a 1.0" group,

Here the way I do that and ALWAYS do it. If a bullet lands 3 inches away form the group..it's part of the group. Here's why: If THAT shot were at a deer it would still be 3 inches away at 100yds and 6 inches or more away at 200yds! This is EXPECIALLY true IF.....I have OTHER loads that do not demonstrate this. And I ALWAYS do. The term "flyer" actually is a term used when shooting with open sights when one cannot SEE the group. THEN when one feels the shot is off..call "flyer" and that shot isn't counted.

I don't have a micrometer to check, but I am wondering if there is more variation in the OD on these slugs than the SSTs.

The Barnes are usually .451 and the SSTs are usually 0.452.

Have others had good or bad results with the Barnes Expanders?

GENERALLY the 250gr Expanders have been pretty accurate for me.

 

[schoolmaster]

I have experience with two animals taken with the 300 Barnes MZ expanders. The first was a 5X5 bull elk at 50 yards. The bullet landed just behind the near shoulder and penetrated diagonally to lodge just under the hide behind the last rib on the far side. (about 30 inches) The bull went 15 yards and collapsed. I slit the hide and removed a perfectly expanded Barnes MZ. The second animal was a whitetailed doe at about 75 yards. She was shot on a down hill angle just above the right eye and there was a quarter sized exit on the far side. The skull around the exit was broken in about a 4 inch circle under the skin. I have a friend who has killed 6 deer with the Barnes bullets. Three with the expanders and 3 with the spitfires. All bullets expanded, all penetrated very well and only one was recovered. This one was a head on shot at 60 yards and the bullet was recovered against the thigh bone in the left ham. He shoots 250 grainers and the velocity of his load is about 2000 fps.

 

[grnhornet]

I've used them for several years in my Knight with as advertised results, perfect expansion! I had the flyer thing with my Knight and droped my powder charge down a little and the group size got smaller! I guess that you need to find that sweet spot for your gun.. My son taged an Iowa 10 pointer last year, a 200yd shot with the Savage ML2 and a 250 gr Barnes expander, 43 gr of VV110. Dave