Bh209 does it vary

[jim graham]

I filled some bh209 charge tubes to 100 grain then figured I'd weigh them to get them all consistant and noticed they weigh in at 78.5 instead of the stated 70 on the bh site. I read a few threads about the tube graduations being inaccurate, so I used a seperate traditions brass measure set at 100, seems like the brass one and the tubes are very similiar in results. Does the bh209 vary in density?

 

[CatamountRob]

It varies lot to lot for sure. I doubt it varies much within the same canister but if you’re worried about it just shake it up before you start.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Don't use the charge tubes, as they are very inaccurate. CatamountRob is correct. Every lot number will be different.
120grs VOLUME from a quality volume measure will weigh much more than 84grs with Lot#39.

 

[earlwb]

It tends to happen with all propellants, not just BH209. The lots can vary.

That was a problem with the fanatical target shooters going for the mythical ultimate super accurate case, propellant and bullet combo with a specific gun. Just as they think they found it, they run out of their propellant. The new batch is a different lot and now they have to chase the tail again. Then they wear out the barrel and have to start all over with a new barrel. Then the bullet manufacturer discontinues their specific bullet. But it does make for a good hobby still.

 

[ElDiablo]

Yes BH209 varies in weight by lot. The 70 grW to 100 grV has been a ballpark ratio for some time. Each lot is formulated by the manufacturer to be consistent by volume. So it’s a good idea to get a good volume measure and use a consistent method.

 

[bronko220002]

I figured lot to lot variation but not as much as what you guys are talking. If that's the case and you're a competitive shooter you should by your powder by the case(s) so you have the same lot. Some of you already do that I'm sure. But for the average shooter/hunter I don't think its necessary.

 

[10acres]

When I measured my BH209 out, a 100grV averaged out to 75grW. If memory serves I had a bout a 4gr deviation from low to high weights.

 

[white eagle]

It tends to happen with all propellants, not just BH209. The lots can vary.

That was a problem with the fanatical target shooters going for the mythical ultimate super accurate case, propellant and bullet combo with a specific gun. Just as they think they found it, they run out of their propellant. The new batch is a different lot and now they have to chase the tail again. Then they wear out the barrel and have to start all over with a new barrel. Then the bullet manufacturer discontinues their specific bullet. But it does make for a good hobby still.

I don't call that a problem I call that fun
a lot of guy's take ol betsy out once a year and call that good enough
they own 1 gun and it hits close enough and that is good enough

 

[earlwb]

I don't call that a problem I call that fun
a lot of guy's take ol betsy out once a year and call that good enough
they own 1 gun and it hits close enough and that is good enough

Yes that is true. I did mention that it is a hobby for some people to find that holy grail of the ultimate load for a gun.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I figured lot to lot variation but not as much as what you guys are talking. If that's the case and you're a competitive shooter you should by your powder by the case(s) so you have the same lot. Some of you already do that I'm sure. But for the average shooter/hunter I don't think its necessary.

There's a LOT of variation between lot#'s.

Example: If you take a quality volume measure and measure out 10 FULL charges of lot#39, then weigh each volume charge and average the 10, the average weight is 96.1grs. Lot#41 is just slightly less at 95grs.

So................ what exactly is the maximum?

 

[MrTom]

There's a LOT of variation between lot#'s.

Example: If you take a quality volume measure and measure out 10 FULL charges of lot#39, then weigh each volume charge and average the 10, the average weight is 96.1grs. Lot#41 is just slightly less at 95grs.

So................ what exactly is the maximum?

The original makers of BH always stated that the powder was designed for volume measure. 120 grains was max.... in regular, store-bought guns that had a max of 150 grains by volume of black powder or appropriate subs. Custom guns or modified factory guns may have different maximum capabilities. I guess like measuring out the charges and then re-weighing them to determine what the average weighed weight is, you could volume measure ten at 120 grain of one particular lot of BH and then weigh to get the average which one would then consider the max weight. People weighing the charges still need to be mindful that the recommended max is 120 volumetric grains, regardless of whatever the average weighed weight is based on lot to lot variables. Change lot numbers of BH? Take time to measure by volume and re-weigh to get an average weight for you load.

Encore....you've mentioned numerous times that at your big shoots you can not load any higher than 120 grains. Is that a vloume measure or is it a weight measure? I'm assuming volume and if so are you averaging the volume charges out to get a weight which would be much more controlled as far as accuracy at distance would concerned?

 

[ENCORE50A]

The original makers of BH always stated that the powder was designed for volume measure. 120 grains was max.... in regular, store-bought guns that had a max of 150 grains by volume of black powder or appropriate subs. Custom guns or modified factory guns may have different maximum capabilities. I guess like measuring out the charges and then re-weighing them to determine what the average weighed weight is, you could volume measure ten at 120 grain of one particular lot of BH and then weigh to get the average which one would then consider the max weight. People weighing the charges still need to be mindful that the recommended max is 120 volumetric grains, regardless of whatever the average weighed weight is based on lot to lot variables. Change lot numbers of BH? Take time to measure by volume and re-weigh to get an average weight for you load.

Encore....you've mentioned numerous times that at your big shoots you can not load any higher than 120 grains. Is that a vloume measure or is it a weight measure? I'm assuming volume and if so are you averaging the volume charges out to get a weight which would be much more controlled as far as accuracy at distance would concerned?

In bold above................ excellent.

As far as the shoots, the current rules state, 120grs VOLUME ... or ... 84grs WEIGHT.

So if I were questioned at a match about my charge, I would declare VOLUME. I would also have my volume measure to verify my charge. At this time, I only know of one Championship shoot that specifically states 84grs weight. Barry runs that and it is an actual Tenn. State Championship shoot. My personal opinion, which means nothing to the rule makers, is that there should be no maximum limit to any propellant, as long as its safe. There's a story behind it that's just better left alone..........

 

[bronko220002]

There's a LOT of variation between lot#'s.

Example: If you take a quality volume measure and measure out 10 FULL charges of lot#39, then weigh each volume charge and average the 10, the average weight is 96.1grs. Lot#41 is just slightly less at 95grs.

So................ what exactly is the maximum?

Yes and that's by volume and I agree. But I was replying mostly to Earlwb's post about weighing charges. In your example lot 1 may weigh 95 gr and lot 2 may weigh 97 gr but both are 120 gr by volume. Now you would know better than me - is that 2 grains of difference going to affect accuracy at 600, 800 or 1000 yards? If so then what I mean is that you would need to purchase your powder in mass of the same lot so you don't have that lot to lot variation even if solely for consistency.
For the average shooter shooting 100 yards and in I wouldn't think it would matter all that much especially for hunting.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Yes and that's by volume and I agree. But I was replying mostly to Earlwb's post about weighing charges. In your example lot 1 may weigh 95 gr and lot 2 may weigh 97 gr but both are 120 gr by volume. Now you would know better than me - is that 2 grains of difference going to affect accuracy at 600, 800 or 1000 yards? If so then what I mean is that you would need to purchase your powder in mass of the same lot so you don't have that lot to lot variation even if solely for consistency.
For the average shooter shooting 100 yards and in I wouldn't think it would matter all that much especially for hunting.

You're right. For the average shooter it doesn't matter.

2grs difference at long range would likely mean a complete miss of not only the target, but the entire backstop.

When BH first started gaining popularity in registered matches, I know of one person when changing lot numbers, verified each by velocity and a single type/brand bullet.
Most all of us bought a case of BH when Powder Valley allowed one case per person. My case it Lot#41. A 5# bottle I have is lot#41 also. I've already thrown 10 and averaged and it differs by about 1.5grs from lot#39.

 

[bronko220002]

2grs difference at long range would likely mean a complete miss of not only the target, but the entire backstop.

I figured as much.

 

[jim graham]

Don't use the charge tubes, as they are very inaccurate. CatamountRob is correct. Every lot number will be different.
120grs VOLUME from a quality volume measure will weigh much more than 84grs with Lot#39.

So, which powder measure should I buy, the Traditions one with the built in funnel doesn't work well for me, the bh209 doesn't pour well from it, tia

 

[CatamountRob]

So, which powder measure should I buy, the Traditions one with the built in funnel doesn't work well for me, the bh209 doesn't pour well from it, tia

I use one of the T/C clear view ones and kind of tap the funnel against the barrel or speedloader if it hangs up.

 

[ElDiablo]

So, which powder measure should I buy, the Traditions one with the built in funnel doesn't work well for me, the bh209 doesn't pour well from it, tia

I have used a brass funnel type for 35 years. Works great for me. I also have a clear plastic TC funnel top type that I think is a good option for guys getting started as it allows you to see that all the powder is out of it. (And I tap both as I’m using them.)

 

[ENCORE50A]

I figured as much.

Verified my velocity for the bullets that will be shot at Atterbury. I'm out of Lot#39 and shooting Lot#41 now.

Using the exact weight bullet and exact identical weight of BH209, the 350gr XLD shooting Lot#41 has a 50fps loss in muzzle velocity over Lot#39.
Not enough to notice for hunters shooting closer ranges, but at longer ranges it would be an issue.

 

[Ninering62]

I use one of the T/C clear view ones and kind of tap the funnel against the barrel or speedloader if it hangs up.

I like the clear view adj powder measurer too with the little funnel top. They are fantastic to use from rifle to pistol.