Bh209 does it vary

[earlwb]

Verified my velocity for the bullets that will be shot at Atterbury. I'm out of Lot#39 and shooting Lot#41 now.

Using the exact weight bullet and exact identical weight of BH209, the 350gr XLD shooting Lot#41 has a 50fps loss in muzzle velocity over Lot#39.
Not enough to notice for hunters shooting closer ranges, but at longer ranges it would be an issue.

According to what I read was you cannot use the weight as a measure. You need to use the volume measurement instead. The weights can vary from lot to lot but the volume stays the same. The muzzle velocity should be really close then using volume with the different lots.

 

[ENCORE50A]

According to what I read was you cannot use the weight as a measure. You need to use the volume measurement instead. The weights can vary from lot to lot but the volume stays the same. The muzzle velocity should be really close then using volume with the different lots.

You have that reversed. Weight is weight. 100grs WEIGHT, no matter what lot number you use, is 100grs by WEIGHT.

Its the volume measurement that changes weight between lot numbers. Cylinders can be the tiniest bit longer/shorter, or tiniest changes in diameter.
Now with volume, if you use the same volume measure and setting, say 100grs volume, what ever you put into that volume measure is 100grs volume, be sand, lead shot, or water. Volume doesn't change, its what you fill the volume measure with that can change the weight.

Set your volume measure to 100grs. Now fill it to the top with lead shot. The volume measure is full at 100grs volume, now weigh it. Now fill the volume measure to the top with BP. The volume measure is now full again, now weigh it. Compare the two. Both are 100grs VOLUME, but the weight will not be the same.

 

[ElDiablo]

According to what I read was you cannot use the weight as a measure. You need to use the volume measurement instead. The weights can vary from lot to lot but the volume stays the same. The muzzle velocity should be really close then using volume with the different lots.

You’re absolutely right. BH209 is formulated by the manufacturer to produce the same results by volume among lots.

You can use weight but you should first determine what your desired volume weighs with each given lot of powder.

 

[ENCORE50A]

120grs VOLUME from lot#27 and lot#39 are identical as far as VOLUME.

However, although they are identical in VOLUME, they will not have the identical VELOCITY.

Even by weight, what will weigh 84grs from Lot#27 compared to Lot#39 will not have the identical VELOCITY.

When attempting to get the highest amount of accuracy, especially at longer ranges, charges by WEIGHT are more accurate. That's been proven long ago by those who are National and World Champions.

120grs VOLUME is a maximum charge, according to Western/Hodgdon. Use a quality volume measure and measure 10 charges. Weigh each of the 10 charges and then take the average weight and use that as your maximum. Your average WILL NOT be 84grs.

 

[earlwb]

I double checked just to make sure I had not gotten it wrong, But Hodgdon does say to measure using volume and not weight
Ref: Blackhorn 209

 

[ENCORE50A]

I double checked just to make sure I had not gotten it wrong, But Hodgdon does say to measure using volume and not weight
Ref: Blackhorn 209

Since BH hit the market one was able to use it by weight. Western provided the original weight conversion as .7 (point 7). FAQ #5 in the clip below.
That data is used by many still to this day.

Please read my entire last post above yours over again. I measure my charges by volume, average those charges by weight, then use that weight as a consistent maximum charge per lot#. Every lot# WILL BE DIFFERENT.

Regardless what some may say, it WILL NOT provide identical results measuring by volume alone, lot to lot, especially at range. To imply so is ridiculous. Those who think so just don't shoot enough of it accurately at distance to know, or just want to argue. It's likely the latter.........

I just loaded up over 20,000 grains by weight into Lane's tubes, which will be used up before the end of the year. Much of that will be used shooting 1,000yd matches, then again at the Nationals in Friendship next month. It is an UNDISPUTABLE FACT, every person shooting for extreme accuracy at both, from 50yds to 1,000yds, will be measuring their BH209 BY WEIGHT, including all National Champions and World Champions. I would ask, what's their reasoning for doing so?

Here's the original data. Yes, it can be used by weight........... FAQs « Blackhorn 209

 

[Mnt monkey]

As one who tends to ignore the norms,and try things myself, weighing versus volume is a none issue, I weigh my charges for one reason after a couple of years pouring volume and shooting thousands of bullets within those two years I went to nothing but weighing charges my day in day out groups shrank a lot and we're more consistent I will never poor by the volume again. I get more consistent accuracy weighing charges than I do pouring volume but I sure agree that for probably 90% of those that shoot Blackhorn pouring by volume is fine. Another thing for me it doesn't take much longer to weigh than it does to pour no one will convince me that pouring is more accurate than weighing and I would never argue with someone that Black Horn was not designed to pour by volume I'm sure it was

 

[X-ring]

Since BH hit the market one was able to use it by weight. Western provided the original weight conversion as .7 (point 7). FAQ #5 in the clip below.
That data is used by many still to this day.

Please read my entire last post above yours over again. I measure my charges by volume, average those charges by weight, then use that weight as a consistent maximum charge per lot#. Every lot# WILL BE DIFFERENT.

Regardless what some may say, it WILL NOT provide identical results measuring by volume alone, lot to lot, especially at range. To imply so is ridiculous. Those who think so just don't shoot enough of it accurately at distance to know, or just want to argue. It's likely the latter.........

I just loaded up over 20,000 grains by weight into Lane's tubes, which will be used up before the end of the year. Much of that will be used shooting 1,000yd matches, then again at the Nationals in Friendship next month. It is an UNDISPUTABLE FACT, every person shooting for extreme accuracy at both, from 50yds to 1,000yds, will be measuring their BH209 BY WEIGHT, including all National Champions and World Champions. I would ask, what's their reasoning for doing so?

Here's the original data. Yes, it can be used by weight........... FAQs « Blackhorn 209


View attachment 36626

For what it's worth, in the golden age of long range shooting in Great Britain, [1860's-70's] at 1000 yards, they found out that a one grain variation in your powder charge was worth 10 inches of vertical dispersion on the target. Of course, this was using black powder. For the average shooter, volume measurement is fine. If you compete, weighing your charges is mandatory. X

 

[Mnt monkey]

When shooting groups with all of my muzzleloaders that I shoot Blackhorn with again I never approach it just to site in for hunting and I never approach it just working up a load that I consider is good enough, though I think those methods are great ,when you shoot day in and day out and you're trying to put bullets in the same hole like it's a bench rest gun and yes I shoot my muzzleloaders as if they are benchrest rifles I know most guys do not do that, in this process I have had many rifles that a half to one grain of powder made a drastic difference in group size,it not only at a thousand yards can it affect I assure you at 100 yards it can affect your group too I know that from hands-on experience in multiple rifles that really is the reason why I weigh my charges when I started seeing what a half to one grain could make with some of my rifles it sealed the deal

 

[ENCORE50A]

When shooting groups with all of my muzzleloaders that I shoot Blackhorn with again I never approach it just to site in for hunting and I never approach it just working up a load that I consider is good enough, though I think those methods are great ,when you shoot day in and day out and you're trying to put bullets in the same hole like it's a bench rest gun and yes I shoot my muzzleloaders as if they are benchrest rifles I know most guys do not do that, in this process I have had many rifles that a half to one grain of powder made a drastic difference in group size,it not only at a thousand yards can it affect I assure you at 100 yards it can affect your group too I know that from hands-on experience in multiple rifles that really is the reason why I weigh my charges when I started seeing what a half to one grain could make with some of my rifles it sealed the deal

Perfect and well stated. Ever consider using a drop tube?
Sorry, couldn't help it LOL

 

[Mnt monkey]

I have not, if I do I'm going to have some t-shirts made, I have to admit if it made my groups noticeably better I'd get me a sack of those drop tubes, I might just run one long one from Powder thrower out the window hook it up to the table just drop it right down in the barrel for convenience maybe about a 30 ft one.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I have not, if I do I'm going to have some t-shirts made, I have to admit if it made my groups noticeably better I'd get me a sack of those drop tubes, I might just run one long one from Powder thrower out the window hook it up to the table just drop it right down in the barrel for convenience maybe about a 30 ft one.

Got a good night's sleep didn't you?

 

[Mnt monkey]

Yes it's raining and I can't go on my Mountain walk I'm a little wound up

 

[Mnt monkey]

I'm like that 11-month-old puppy that you've been working with if you don't walk him good in the morning when you leave and go to work he's going to tear something up

 

[Ninering62]

I'm like that 11-month-old puppy that you've been working with if you don't walk him good in the morning when you leave and go to work he's going to tear something up

Just dont let Amber Heard train your 11 mo old puppy..... bc chewin stuff up won't be the problem you're going to have to worry about.

 

[Quad]

I filled some bh209 charge tubes to 100 grain then figured I'd weigh them to get them all consistant and noticed they weigh in at 78.5 instead of the stated 70 on the bh site. I read a few threads about the tube graduations being inaccurate, so I used a seperate traditions brass measure set at 100, seems like the brass one and the tubes are very similiar in results. Does the bh209 vary in density?

The way I get ready for hunting season is use a fill a tube to 100 grains and weigh it…. Then I weigh the rest of the loads I plan on using the rest of the season… is this an acceptable way? I don’t shoot to sight in and hopefully kill a deer. Thanks in advance..

 

[Bowanna]

By volume or weight, the age old dilemna. I had a thought the other night, if we're supposed to use powder by volume why do they sell it to us by weight?
Weight is weight, to many variables in volume, do you bump the measure a couple times, if moisture makes powder heavier does it not make the powder swell as well? And if it's definitely volume where do you purchase the text book volume measure, I have three and they're all slightly different.

 

[MrTom]

, if moisture makes powder heavier does it not make the powder swell as well?

BH does not attract moisture nor does it absorb it. This factor is why I use it in the field. Where and when I hunt I can get rain or drizzle or snow and I do not have to fret about moisture affecting the shot.

 

[ElDiablo]

In my tests, all powders including BH209 will absorb some moisture. See this thread:

https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/t7-and-water.42162/page-2#post-393381

 

[MrTom]

I hunt BH, but I don't expose any of my powders to damp unless it happens should I need to reload in the field and it's raining or snowing, and my usual loading practice is interrupted. I'm using inlines and saboted bullets and have the barrels covered with finger cots and the action covered with a 2" piece of bicycle innertube that covers the joint between barrel and receiver when the gun is loaded and, in the woods, from the onset of the hunt until the gun is shot. The tube rolls out of the way when re-priming and then rolls right back where it's needed. Moisture intrusion in my powders is moot. If the weather is cold while hunting, the guns are loaded cold, and kept cold in transit in a vehicle and when at home between hunting days.

I get enough range time that I don't need to, nor do I, shoot when its wet. All of my powders are stored in a controlled climate in the house and weighed charges go straight into tubes with good covers and these are stored in the same controlled area until I either hunt or go to the club to shoot. In the hunting field all the tubes reside in a heavy ziplock in the fairly watertight pocket.

I think everyone should take care to keep the powder end of a muzzy as dry as possible at all times. Primers/caps as well. BH seems to be the least likely off all the powders to harbor any moisture related issues, but I still go out of my way to ensure things are kept dry while loading and through the day if I am hunting.

I'm not arguing that moisture may have any effects on the powders, I'm suggesting that steps can be taken to help eliminate any unfortunate ends that can come from moisture. I won't use T7 in the field just because of its affinity to draw moisture even when in seemingly dry storage. Damp has never hindered a shot with BH. T7 has handed me a few duds caused by damp weather.