Bloodlines or TMZ?

[alaska viking]

As some here know, I hunt both flavors of bears, (black bear and Browns). While my rifle has decided it LOVES Nosler 260 Partitions, and that will be my go-to for deer, I feel it is far to light for the bears, (as in staying together and penetrating on large animals).
As a dis-claimer, understand that I have taken more than my share of bears with various weapons. That said, my T/C seems to do fairly well with both the 290 grain TMZ's, and the 250 grain Bloodlines. What to choose? These two bullets are supposed to be seriously controlled expansion bullets. I would prefer a Swift A-Frame, but can't seem to find them, and doubt they would operate correctly under muzzy speeds.
Who here has real-world experience with the Bloodlines?
I would like some "boots on the ground" feedback.
Good hunting, to all.

 

[sabotloader]

As some here know, I hunt both flavors of bears, (black bear and Browns). While my rifle has decided it LOVES Nosler 260 Partitions, and that will be my go-to for deer, I feel it is far to light for the bears, (as in staying together and penetrating on large animals).
As a dis-claimer, understand that I have taken more than my share of bears with various weapons. That said, my T/C seems to do fairly well with both the 290 grain TMZ's, and the 250 grain Bloodlines. What to choose? These two bullets are supposed to be seriously controlled expansion bullets. I would prefer a Swift A-Frame, but can't seem to find them, and doubt they would operate correctly under muzzy speeds.
Who here has real-world experience with the Bloodlines?
I would like some "boots on the ground" feedback.
Good hunting, to all.

Personally, I would suggest you look at the Lehigh .458x305 grain DOA or CF. This is a monster bullet but you need to shoot it hard. I use 120 grains of T7 and if you are using BH - 120 of that would really be mad medicine.

The bullet is a 45-70 rifle bullet and because of that the diameter is a very tight .458 - probably closer to 457 so for my self the MMP HPH-24 sabot works the best to grip the bullet and the bore of the rifle. If you have a very tight bore then you will want the MMP Orange 458x50 sabot.



http://www.lehighdefense.com/collection ... 5gr-bullet

 

[alaska viking]

The HPH24 is what I have to use to feed the TMZ bullets. Factory yellow is BARELY do-able. I will try the above mentioned bullets. Are they similar to the Bloodlines, ballistically and terminally?
If so, do you have a preferred source?

 

[alaska viking]

OOps. I see it at the end of your post. Thank you!

 

[Anonymous]

All three would work fine I bet. My first choice is the Barnes TMZ.

 

[ronlaughlin]

No boots on the ground experience.

Every test i have ever done shows the Lehigh/Knight bullets will penetrate deeper than the Barnes. Every time. The Lehigh/Barnes bullets also seem more reliable to work as designed, in different conditions.

The 300g Nosler has also penetrated deeper in all tests than the Barnes, and does extensive damage to media. On deer, the Nosler does awful nasty tissue damage.

There is no doubt the Barnes will work most of the time, but in my opinion, both the Lehigh, and the Nosler are better choices, when one's life is on the line.

 

[alaska viking]

I just ordered 20 of the 305 grain lehighs. Will call Connie for the orange sabots Monday. I already know that with a .458, in my T/C, even the 24 sabots will be too tight. They are perfect for the .451/.452 bullets, but that's the limit.

 

[alaska viking]

I might add that I will probably try the 300 grain Partitions, also. If the Impact likes them as well as it likes the 260's, well, enough said.

 

[sabotloader]

I might add that I will probably try the 300 grain Partitions, also. If the Impact likes them as well as it likes the 260's, well, enough said.

Nosler of course no longer makes the 451x260 the 451x300 or even the 458x300 which were my favorites' - so they are hard to find.

If you might be looking for a great all-around bullet you might also consider the Bloodline .458x275 grain.

 

[Anonymous]

You didn't need any more bullet models/designs for those bear. I've known of two instances where a 250 gr. Barnes Expander and 240 gr. Hornady XTP Mag dropped bears quickly on 100-110 gr charges. If you do searches online about bear hunts with muzzleloaders, there are a ton harvested with bullets similar to the three you already have. You will even find roundball hunts with either a 270 gr. 54-cal ball or 58-cals.

You have posters here that think the only good muzzleloader bullet is one that penetrates. That's not correct. You need a combination of penetration and expansion and bears are not any exception.

 

[ronlaughlin]

.....You have posters here that think the only good muzzleloader bullet is one that penetrates. That's not correct. You need a combination of penetration and expansion and bears are not any exception.

You can't know what other poster's think. You obviously don't know what a Brown Bear is.

The Lewis & Clark expedition as much as possible quit shooting Grizzly, because they wouldn't die, and caused all kind of havoc. Round ball didn't work for them, then, and is a poor choice today, for Grizzly.

None of the bullets mentioned in this thread fails to expand, but some penetrate better than others, and they are the better choice.

 

[sabotloader]

I just ordered 20 of the 305 grain lehighs. Will call Connie for the orange sabots Monday. I already know that with a .458, in my T/C, even the 24 sabots will be too tight. They are perfect for the .451/.452 bullets, but that's the limit.

You might get a great fit with the 305 - I know in my Knights I use the thicker HPH24 to get a snug secure fit in the bore.

I think you will really like what the 305 will do for you... I call it Dave's Buffalo Bullet because when I first starting looking at the bullet I did some research and found that guys were using it on Buffalo from their 45-70's and were having great success with it.

I think it was two years ago when one morning late into an elk hunt and I was frustrated a 4x4 whitetail with a basketball size rack appeared in front of me at about 60 yards. I argued with myself about shooting it 1 - because I was elk hunting and 2 I feared the bullet at 60 yards going through a thin skinned whitetail might not work as designed, I felt it with the powder load I had it might pass right through. WRONG - it worked just as designed. When I opened that animal up there was real destruction. And I had never seen this before but there were tubes of congealed blood that laid out in the snow.

I had some really good pics of this bullet and the work it has done but can not find them right now.

 

[sabotloader]

The HPH24 is what I have to use to feed the TMZ bullets. Factory yellow is BARELY do-able. I will try the above mentioned bullets. Are they similar to the Bloodlines, ballistically and terminally?
If so, do you have a preferred source?

The are/were the fore-runner to the Bloodlines and do have the same theory of operation. The nose petals of this bullet are a little heavier than the Bloodline 300 and therefor will penetrate/travel a bit greater distance. Also they do not have the knurling around the bullet to grip the sabot with but if you get a tight fit in your load they work well.

Brown bear can get to be a significant size and I am positive the bullet will work as designed - BUT still you only have that one shot - I hope you also have a backup plan. Browns can get awful aggressive ifn you sting them. I am also assuming a bit here in that you know about the theory of operation of the Lehigh and I think of all the bullets out the for a ML this might really be a good choice. You should get significant hydrostatic shock internal and great penetration and cutting as the bullet core after shedding its petals will continue to penetrate and cause further damage.

 

[alaska viking]

Thanks to all. Yes, I am quite familiar with our coastal brownies. The last one I took was a squared out 9'-2" beast, (with a bow). Have taken them with center fire's as well, and as stated, bullet performance is critical.
We also have some rather large black bears around here, and I give them the respect they deserve, as well.
I don't do this to them! oke:

 

[GM54-120]

Personally i would put penetration first when it comes to large dangerous game. Expansion means nothing if the bullet does not reach the vitals. I would even choose a heavy hardcast over some bullets.

If you want a Barnes that penetrates well, look at the Barnes Original 300gr or 400gr Spitzer. Barnes also sells the Buster bullet but those offer no expansion.

I would lean more towards the 275gr and heavier Lehighs or the 300gr Partition if my butt was on the line. The Lehigh Extreme Penetrator might also do well but i would prefer to see a little more mass/weight.

http://www.lehighdefense.com/collection ... 1819245316

 

[smokeeter]

I've been able to get 300 gr noslers from wideners. These are pistol bullets .451 dia.but they work great in saboted loads. I'd go with the 300 partitions, I haven't shot any big brownies but I have taken a number of bull moose with them and haven't had one stay in an animal.
https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=529

 

[alaska viking]

As an FYI, I am told Nosler will again start producing the 260 grain Partitions in November. Off to the range in the morning to continue the tests with the 250 grain Bloodlines.
Of course a few of the Noslers, just to make myself feel good! :applause:

 

[sabotloader]

As an FYI, I am told Nosler will again start producing the 260 grain Partitions in November. Off to the range in the morning to continue the tests with the 250 grain Bloodlines.
Of course a few of the Noslers, just to make myself feel good! :applause:

I would like to tell you at one time I was a huge Nosler Partition fan, well I still am when it comes to center fire rifles, but once you start shooting the Lehigh or a Bloodline you will most probably move away from the Partition. But yet I have two boxes of .458x300 Partitions and a couple or 3 boxes of 260's that I have rat holed. But they have not seen daylight in 4-5 years...

 

[alaska viking]

I will make smoke in the morning. Sore shoulder, and all. Going to play with 120 BH. , and large bullets. Ouch.
I did receive new scope base and rings, but don't know if I am willing to change, just yet. Black eye, or scope-eye will dictate. Simply need another inch of eye relief!

 

[alaska viking]

Well, the TMZ's ruled the day, with a solid sub-inch group, TWICE!(3 shot strings). The 250 grain BloodLines took a close second, with two 3 shot groups that were JUST over an honest inch.
I had trouble getting the Partitions to tighten up. 2" was the best. Weird, as they generally can clover-leaf?
All were with 100 grains measured Bh209, Winchester 209 primers.
Interestingly,POI was very similar, with weights of said bullets going from 250-290 grains. Weird. no worries, as hunting goes, that's for sure.
We hunt soon! Full confidence in all loads.