Bore Butter

[pmfinnegan2]

Ok, I am fairly new to muzzle loading, so pardon me if I am naive. And please don?t bash me I am just asking why, just a curiosity thing.

I see a lot of people on here bashing the use of bore butter. I am not sure why. I just got a TC omega and it came with bore butter. It also came with a video where it shows how to take care of the barrel (cleaning and what not), and it recommended using bore butter. My way of thinking is it is a product made by TC and recommended by TC to use on their barrels that they supply a lifetime warranty on. Why would they recommend using this product if it was not good for the barrels that they would have to replace?

Just curious?interested in people?s opinion, not a bashing. Thanks.

 

[Underclocked]

I believe it also is to be COMPLETELY removed from the bore before shooting sabots - also per TC.

My guess is they have a lot of it.

 

[oneshot1]

I talked with them up at TC years ago and they said not to use Bore Butter with Sabots or Conicals.

I've use it as a Patch Lube when shooting Patch and Ball.And at one time I used it to season barrel.But got to checking,found a bunch of negative.Decided it wasn't worth it taking a chance on messing up a barrel.

So I started cleaning my Barrel good and using a good Gun Oil like Remington.Check every couple months.Have no problems with any of my Guns.

oneshot

 

[Blue Elk]

pmfinnegan2, I was thinking the same thing. I'm also new to ML. I just don't want to hurt my new encore. What to use?

 

[big6x6]

My way of thinking is it is a product made by TC and recommended by TC to use on their barrels that they supply a lifetime warranty on. Why would they recommend using this product if it was not good for the barrels that they would have to replace?

It's a good bullet/patch lube as stated. I wouldn't dare use it as a lube/rust preventative on a firearm. Funny how NO other firearm in the world is supplied with it or recommends it. No gun writer in the world has EVER recommended it for use as a lube/rust preventative. There are SO many MUCH better products for this.. Correct me if I'm wrong but would rust/corrosion be considered a warranty issue? I don't think so...

As UC said..they have a lot of it, it is cheap, and they want to sell it..

 

[flats1]

I have been using it but not for very long and have not had any problems with it yet. Why do ya'll not use it? What will it do to the bore?

 

[Omega Man]

:cry: I just purchased an Omega also , but I didn't get any Bore Butter with my firearm , I would have used it with my Renegade -- patch/ball for sure . What is the consensus on the damage done if used as a swab to coat the inside of barrels ? Now I'm curious .

 

[pmfinnegan2]

From the TC website...just for thoughts...

"6: Is T/C's Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter really that good? How does it work?
It sure is, and if you've got some friends who are using it, ask them. Our All Natural "Bore Butter" is absent of any petroleum based oil, and contains an ingredient which seasons the bore with repeated use, just as you would season a cast iron skillet. Tar, used to pave highways, is made by heating a petroleum based oil. In other words, heat plus petroleum oil equals tar! That's what causes the heavy fouling when shooting a muzzleloader with conventional petroleum based lubes. The problem of heavy fouling was one not encountered in the old days, as the oils used then were all natural' whale oil, bear fat, deer tallow, etc. Petroleum based oils were not discovered until the mid 1800's, and during the Civil War, fouling did become a problem.

7: How do I use Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter?
It's easy. The first step is to remove all traces of oil from your muzzleloader by cleaning the bore with hot water and a detergent. Then coat the bore with Bore Butter using a patch or swab saturated with it. From that point on, never allow a petroleum based lube to interfere with the Natural Lube. Use bullets prelubed with Bore Butter, and when cleaning, use an all natural bore cleaner like our No. 13. As you continue to shoot, you will be slowly seasoning the bore and will notice that very little fouling builds up. Loading will remain easy from shot to shot, and cleaning will be a snap.

Note about Sabots
T/C's All Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter was designed as a lube to be used with traditional patched roundballs (lube the patches) and all lead conical bullets like our Maxi-Ball and Maxi-Hunters.

If you are shooting sabots, DO NOT LUBE YOUR SABOTS. Sabots are designed to be shot right out of the package____DRY. In fact, you should remove any trace of Natural Lube, or any lube for that matter, from the barrel before shooting sabots. The less lube you have in the barrel when shooting sabots, the better, to achieve optimum accuracy.

When your hunting or shooting is done, and your rifle cleaned after shooting, re-lube your barrel with T/C's All Natural Lube Bore Butter prior to storage. Wipe down the outside as well. It's an excellent rust preventative.

8: Has Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter been tested?
Yes. In 1990, a T/C New Englander was repeatedly fired every day for about 1 month, without having a patch run down the barrel. Over 1,000 rounds were fired, and loading remained as easy on the last shot, as on the first. The velocities of the last five shots were measured, and the standard deviation of these 5 shots was 8.8FPS. That's less than what you would experience with most boxes of centerfire rifle cartridges!

9: Are all natural lubes the same?
No, there are a number of natural lubricants on the market, but only T/C's All Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter has the added ingredient to give you long term performance. "

 

[coh-1]

I have used Bore Butter or Wonder Lube 1000 every since I first started shooting real black powder in 2 custom built Kentucky rifles that have been in my family since the early 70's and that was about 20 years ago. I use Bore Butter in 2 Encores, a .36 Mowery and a .50 CVA Hawken. It should be used just like the directions state as a barrel seasoner and rust inhibitor for storage. Over time it makes a barrel easier to clean and in my opinion it does help reduce fouling after repeated use. It is a natural made product that might in fact be close to what our countries original mountain men might have used and I think the problem people have with it is the result of mixing or cutting it effectiveness with petroleum based products which you are not suppose to do. (Just read the instructions.)

Just like these old mountain men, I think that just hot, soapy water is the best BP cleaner on the market. They didn't have any modern oil based lubes or cleaners and look how many of these fine original weapons still exist today and are still shootable! In my opinion, most people just switch or need to try something new for their gun cleaning chores and that is also the basis for most if not all of their cleaning headaches because who know how these products react to one another or counter act each other. I have read countless people on this forum try this, then that and then something else on the suggestion of someone else. I sure don't plan to just grab any product off the store shelf and try it as a cleaner.

I have a great deal of money invested in my BP guns and I don't intend to hurt them and since Bore Butter/Wonder Lube works for me I will continue to use it. If you read or call TC and talk to their techs they don't recommend this lube for sabots but did and still do lube their pure lead maxi bullets with the product, but then again these are bore sized. TC recommends the product in the use of their guns and they even demonstrate it's use in videos by Gregg Ritz. In my opinion If it was bad they wouldn't do this.

In my high power rifles I use the more modern cleaner sand oils like Hopp's, etc., because modern cartridges are not corrosive or not as corrosive.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Curtis

 

[goosehunt2]

I think a lot of this boils down to marketing. If said company has a product that they can market and make a profit they are going to do just that. If it works for you (bore butter) and you are happy with the results then you are good to go. As far as a lubricant for my muzzleloader I use Brake Free because I already had it here when I got my Knight.

 

[oneshot1]

Well for one thing you don't use Hot Soapy water to clean your Rifle,it will flash rust.Use warm Soapy water.

If you are trying to Season your Barrel with Bore Butter and you use Soap.You will take the seasoning out.

If you are lubing your Barrel for storage with Bore Butter,you better pray you have every spec of water out.Because if you don't,unlike Gun Oil which will bring water away from the metal.Bore Butter will seal the water in and it will start to form rust within 24 hours.

But hey I might be wrong only been using Muzzleloaders for 39 years.

oneshot

 

[rks1949]

The trick is to get every last bit of lubricant out of the bore before firing the gun,no matter of what you use! And if you put your gun up with moisture in it,your gonna have problems. I don't buy the "seasons the bore" bit at all. It may condition the bore,but it dosen't stay in the bore,if you clean it real well(as you should before firing the gun). The mountain men didn't use hot soapy water,to clean their guns while in the mountains. In fact most didn't see any soap until they hit town once a year. There's allot of HYPE about oil,and treatments,and that's about all it is. W-D 40 Will displace moisture,but don't count on it keeping your gun from rusting! If you are getting a build up in the bore,your not cleaning your gun like you should. Scrub it out with a brush then followed by several patches,until they come out clean. Then use oil,Bore Butter,Lard ,Crisco,Bannas,whatever floats your boat,and pack that baby full . But before shooting,make sure you get it ALL out before firing the gun,and you won't have any build up problems.

 

[doegirl]

The crux of the whole bore butter issue is that for seasoning to occur, it must be left IN the barrel. I did use bb in my encore for a while with no problems. But I swabbed the bore to get rid of any trace of lubricant. So, in a way, I wasn't "seasoning" my gun. Then I got my White Mountain Cartine. It definitely was seasoned. And it all came out in chunks/blobs after a grueling 2 hour boiling water scrub-rinse-repeat job. Never again.
Too much gun oil in the bore will make a gummy mess for sure. But swabbing the bore dry and snapping off a primer or two usually takes care of that problem.

 

[big6x6]

Treat you muzzleloaders just as a centerfire when it come to rust prevention. Doegirl hit the nail on the head..I don't want a SEASONED bore..I want a clean, corrosion-free bore. Shooters have used Bore-Butter/similar for YEARS to season the barrels of their muzzleloaders MOSTLY because they didn't know better. Now they do or should.

Season your cast-iron frying pan, NOT your muzzleloaders.

 

[Omega Man]

I love it !!

I've been using Bore Butter for years , for my patch and ball gun and am very happy , hasn't hurt the barrel at all , I even coat the whole gun before storing for the season . This might be a surprise to all of you , but ALL ML barrels are going to RUST and there 's not a Damn thing your going to do but control it . As far as cleaning your guns oneshot is slightly wrong , you can clean your barrels with warm or hot soapy water , not going to take seasoning out at all , Mountain Men did it , but the trick is to SCALD the barrel at the end with the HOTTEST(boiling) water you can handle (I use welding gloves) and ALL the moisture will disapate automatically, try it it's amazing ,in 2 seconds your barrel will be dry, it's not rocket science . Any petrolium based products are taboo for ML barrels , like the man said prior to oil-based products back in the day , not nuch foiling problems , seasoning is the key (for accuracy & loading ease), oils will take seasoning out of barrels with on swab . That's comin from a ML from the Northeast , a place of high humidity , out west is a different story . Just my 2cts --don't take it personal ! Peace !! 8)

 

[rks1949]

I don't know why most people think you have to use boiling water to really deep clean your bore. There are a number of bore cleaning solvents,that will clean your bore spotless,without using any H2O,at all. The one I have been using latley(and it's the best so far is CVA Barrel Blaster Wonder Gel) I just tried it after seeing it,and reading the lable. It is the same stuff as Blue Wonder Bore cleaner. This will take everything(and I mean everything) out of your barrel,with a good scrubbing,with a bore brush. It contains Ammonia,Potassium,Penetrating agents,and "other" ingredients. I use a regular jag,with a patch,and window cleaner and get the bore looking as clean as I can. Then put some of this on a brush run it up and dow the bore several times. Then let it set for around 5-10minutes. You won't believe what comes out of your squeaky clean bore,on the first patch. Then use the preservitive of choiceBore Butter,Break free,motor oil (don't laugh) I know of one guy that uses nothing more than ATF to coat the bore on his gun,and no rust in 10years! Before shooting I use a little Hoppe's and clean out the bore before shooting,just running a dry patch dosen't cut the oil,BB,or whaterer you used to protect your bore. I think this IS where most people make the mistake,resulting in a build up in the bore.

 

[Omega Man]

Natural is the way to go !

OK , it's up to the individual to use what he wants , based on info he/she acquired , lot of marketing BS out there , so filters are needed . As far as what the Mountain Men used , I would have to guess because I wasn't there , but I'm sure a good spit patch was all that was needed for the most part (all natural) . Here we go back to the convience part again , I guess in one's own mind anything can be justified , so everyones right , Lol ! All powders are very corrosive (T7 ?), so to state one's barrel is rust free is absurb to say the least . Barrels have been rustin' for hundreds of years , but they've been controlled . Out west(friends) they swab there barrels in cold water right in the toilet bowl , no humidity , barrel dries up quick , flush , swab barrel with desired lube(natural) , all set . 8)

 

[Omega Man]

As far as comparing a ML to a centerfire and clean , no comparison , because of the powders used . One's clean burning , all the powder burns and is not very corrosive at all . BP guns and powder are dirty , never burn all powder when discharged as anyone could witness with sparks and burning embers falling from end of barrel , more fouling compared to hardly a trace of fouling ? Oil of any kind is no good for a ML barrel(maybe on the outside), but your right , it's definitely the best for rust, but even oil won't prevent rust in BP guns . Rust can't be denyed , it's apart of life , a part of ML wether one wants to admit it or not form the first shot , game over .

 

[cayuga]

As I have said to many.. I was a bore butter user, but never again. I had the misfortune of bore butter building up in my barrel (not knowing) and stealing the accuracy of the rifle. It ended up costing me the longest tracking job on a wounded deer in my life.

When I was talking to an old black powder shooter (who taught me a lot about shooting these rifles) about the problem he immediately told me I was a bore butter user and that the barrel was clogged.

Like Doegirl described, I spent the next couple hours getting that stuff out of the barrel. I have never used it since and my accuracy is back and exceptional.

When I clean my rifles, I always use hot water. In my traditional rifles, I have a tea kettle going while I clean the rifle. Before I end my cleaning, I take the barrel outside and pour that boiling water through the barrel a number of times. Then wearing gloves I run two solvent patches through that hot barrel and finally some dry patches. Once the barrel cools I patch Birchwood Casey Sheath or Breakfree CLP down the barrel. Some of them have been sitting on racks for a long time and never rusted at all.

I have no intention of seasoning my barrel. I treat all my muzzleloaders like they were a center fire and have had great results because of it. Before I shoot, a simple alcohol patch down the barrel removes any oils and dirt. Then some dry patches and pop a cap or two and I am good to go.

 

[Underclocked]

My rifles haven't a spot of rust on or in them. I don't use bore butter. You CAN prevent rust regardless of powder used. There are some very good rust inhibitors on the market - bore butter is NOT one of them.

You guys that relate to what the mountain men did have to realize those mountain men had no Breakfree CLP or Eezox or Sheath or yadda yadda to use as a lube and protectorant. How many original muzzleloaders from that era are still in pristine condition? Clean your rifles as you would any firearm and coat the bore with a good, modern lube/protectorant.

Bore butter will probably do no harm so long as you have COMPLETELY removed all combustion byproducts as well as all moisture from the bore and exterior before you EVENLY apply a uniform coating of the butter. Always Save margarine would likely do the same thing if applied in that manner (we need to find some use for that crap! :wink: ) All you are doing is applying a coat of wax-like material over the metal which acts as a moisture barrier. That coating can also be a nice trap and hideout for anything missed in the cleaning process. And, as has been stated, thoroughly REMOVE the bore butter or any other lubricant used before loading your rifle.

I think many people assume seasoning is working/happening because their rifle slowly shoots better over a period of time. That is barrel break-in. Seasoning is for old porous cast iron cookware.

My great-granpa did it that way so it must be right..... wrong! great-granpa did it that way because he had no choice.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html and, by the way, good ol' WD-40 aint bad at all for short term protection.