Bushnell/Sightron eye relief issues.

[Grouse]

These two manufactures need to wake up and smell the coffee. Sightron and Bushnell cant compete in the eye relief Category. I just dont want to use these scopes with high power rifles. Or hard kicking MuzzleLoaders. :wink: One good example was the Sightron SII that i owned. I could not get the Scope to open up. I even bought different mounts to try to get it to work. It just got to be a hassle so i sold it. It was a very clear scope to say the least.

My Bushnell Elite 3200 is a little better then the Sightron. With 110grns of 777 and a 300grn bullet, it does touch my shooting glasses. That's a pretty stoubt load. But i do think about that when shooting.

IMO these two scope companies need to increase there eye relief on there scopes. As it is right now, there just good varmint scopes. Low recoil guns is what they specialize in now. I have owned both these Scopes, and Leupolds. All around Leupold has them beat. Some extended eye relief would help get the other to in the same league as Leupold, in my opinion.

The Nikon Scope i looked at a few day's ago seemed like it had generous eye relief. I think that's a really important factor in shooting good groups instead of bad groups.

 

[Anonymous]

Grouse, both companies make a wide variety of scopes with different eye reliefs so those who can read can choose what they need. :cry:

Three key attributes of an optic (Field of View, Eye relief, and Magnification) are inter-related. You can?t increase one without reducing one or more of the other two attributes. This is why long eye relief handgun scopes have a narrow field of view. The only way to cheat this is to add more lenses.

There are reasonable facts that would cause a person to consider a Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5 x 10 vs. a Leupold VX III 2.5 x 8 x 36 or a Leupold 3.5 x 10 x 40.

Fact: Bushnell Elites have a stronger, hammer-forged titanium-alloyed tube.

Fact: Bushnell outperforms Leupold optically, transmitting more light. 95% vs 91%

Fact: Bushnell has a wider power range at 4:1. Leupold VX III's cannot manage a full 3:1 power range.

Fact: Bushnell offers Rainguard, a non-fog external coating not available from Leupold. Rainguard is a patented product.

Fact: The Bushnell Elite offers all the above, yet costs LESS than a V-X III.

There is more to a scope than just eye relief. Certainly, you need adequate eye relief-- if you are a stock-crawler, you may prefer more.

Mounting distances, internal adjustment ranges, etc., are other things that many do not bother to look at until after they buy.

Sightron has generous internal adjustments, a better warranty than Leupold or Bushnell-- and a better adjustment system.

At the end of the day, the product that delivers the best view, recoil resistance, and reliability should be the winner-- assuming consideration of the other factors cited above.

If you want to believe the Japanese lenses in Leupolds are better than those in Bushnell product across the line, that's your choice. :? For those who automatically think they get what they pay for-- well, what are you paying for? A lot of old repairs, $35K glossy ads, Jim Schlockey, and made right here from Japanese and Chinese parts?

It is anyone's choice.

 

[dwhunter]

I swear Wakeman works for Bushnell.

 

[Doohan]

Hmm... Who are you and what have you done with Grouse? :huh?:



Tom is that 3200 for sale ?

 

[Anonymous]

I swear Wakeman works for Bushnell.

Hardly. Nor Sightron, Mueller, Millett, Kahles, Simmons, or Zeiss.

To condemn a scope company for eye relief is like condemning General Motors, Ford, or Chysler for legroom-- it makes no sense at all, and varies from model to model.

There is little excuse for not taking the very small amount time it takes to inform yourself as to what a scope is in a very basic sense before buying it. Eye relief is one component, but hardly the only component in scope selection. Few guns move three inches during recoil; and scopes are designed to look through-- not at.

The built in America theme is silly when it comes to scopes-- is Bushnell less American than Leupold? Who imports a higher percentage of goods? Chinese Leupold binoculars are better than Chinese or Japanese Bushnells?

A Kahles built in Rhode Island or a Conquest built in Rochester is just as American built as a Leupold, with a lot less Korean, Chinese, and Japanese parts.

Weaver and Sightron have better adjustment systems than Leupold, Sightron has a better warranty, and most everyone has a warranty as good. All cost far less, and give you the power range you are promised. Etched reticles and constant eye relief are Zeiss Conquest features Leupold can't touch, RainGuard is something Leupold can't touch-- and a huge advantage to this hunter.

Choices are a good thing; build mindless brand loyalty is really something to get past.

 

[dwhunter]

If we all agreed on the same scope though then we wouldn't have anything to fuss about and wouldn't need a optics post. oke:

 

[big6x6]

These two manufactures need to wake up and smell the coffee. Sightron and Bushnell cant compete in the eye relief Category.

You are absolutely correct. I don't know why Bushnell offers their PREMIER product Elite 4200 series with such short eye relief. I never have understood that. This is such an issue with them, and they know it, that they are NOW specifying 3.3 inches as the eye relief on the 2.5-10X40 whereas it has ALWAYS been listed as 3.0 inches. I'm sure NO changes were made to the product, just adjustments made to the literature.

Fact: Bushnell Elites have a stronger, hammer-forged titanium-alloyed tube.

Stronger than what?

Fact: Bushnell outperforms Leupold optically, transmitting more light. 95% vs 91%

Where is ANY independent testing to support this? Light rays come in many shapes and sizes. This statement means nothing by itself.

Fact: Bushnell has a wider power range at 4:1. Leupold VX III's cannot manage a full 3:1 power range.

Nor can the Zeiss Conquest.

Fact: Bushnell offers Rainguard, a non-fog external coating not available from Leupold. Rainguard is a patented product.

Nor does Sightron, Kahles, Zeiss, Schmidt and Bender, Burris, Nightforce, et al.

Sightron has generous internal adjustments, a better warranty than Leupold or Bushnell-- and a better adjustment system.

Says WHO? Sightron? Either an adjustment ADJUSTS and HOLDS it's adjustment or it doesn't.

 

[smokit]

I'll take field of view over eye relief every time.If eye relief of 3" on a rifle is not enough,you have a problem ,not the scope. :lol: Hehe ,I bought two new sightrons this month 3x12x50 & 3x9x50 ,I had to defend my new toys.

 

[Doohan]

Chuck,

Does that VX-III have constant eye relief like the Zeiss? I really like the idea of that.. I dont really have a scope that offers that.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't know why Bushnell offers their PREMIER product Elite 4200 series with such short eye relief. I never have understood that. This is such an issue with them, and they know it, that they are NOW specifying 3.3 inches as the eye relief on the 2.5-10X40 whereas it has ALWAYS been listed as 3.0 inches.

The 3.3" is minimum, at the high end. That has always been the case on Elite 4200 2.5 x 10 x 40mm scopes.

Stronger than what?

30% stronger than non-titanium strengthened, non-hammer forged standard aluminum tubes.

Fact: Bushnell outperforms Leupold optically, transmitting more light. 95% vs 91%

Where is ANY independent testing to support this? Light rays come in many shapes and sizes. This statement means nothing by itself.

It means a lot. Lab data at 500 - 550 nanometers, the visible wavelength to most eyes. Hard to bribe a machine.

Says WHO? Either an adjustment ADJUSTS and HOLDS it's adjustment or it doesn't.

Like brake adjustments and front-end alignments. Says physics.

For how long? At what adjustment range, and under what force? Leaf springs weaken faster than coil springs, hence the military use of them. Full contact is better than point contact.

 

[big6x6]

The 3.3" is minimum, at the high end. That has always been the case on Elite 4200 2.5 x 10 x 40mm scopes.

If that WERE the case...why have they ALWAYS listed 3.0 inch FLAT in their brochure and every Cabelas/Bass Pro, etc. Hey, I say if your printed specs don't cut the mustard, just change the PRINT!

30% stronger than non-titanium strengthened, non-hammer forged standard aluminum tubes.

So...you are saying they are stronger than a Leuopold VX-III tube in particular?

It means a lot. Lab data at 500 - 550 nanometers, the visible wavelength to most eyes. Hard to bribe a machine.

Where may one read of this independent test comparing similar models comparing the Leupold VX-III vs. the Bushnell Elite 4200?

Like brake adjustments and front-end alignments. Says physics.

For how long? At what adjustment range, and under what force? Leaf springs weaken faster

Says who? SIGHTRON?

 

[Doohan]

ok Randy,

Your turn! oke:

 

[dwhunter]

Don't ya just love it.

 

[Doohan]

:lol: Yep!

Pepsi is better than Coke darn it! artyman:





I dont get it, I like em all and use what I like, I'm not partial to any one manufacturer... good thing we have choices!

 

[Anonymous]

If that WERE the case...why have they ALWAYS listed 3.0 inch FLAT in their brochure and every Cabelas/Bass Pro, etc. Hey, I say if your printed specs don't cut the mustard, just change the PRINT!

Measure it yourself-- I have. What do you come up with?

30% stronger than non-titanium strengthened, non-hammer forged standard aluminum tubes.

So...you are saying they are stronger than a Leuopold VX-III tube in particular?

Yes.

It means a lot. Lab data at 500 - 550 nanometers, the visible wavelength to most eyes. Hard to bribe a machine.

Where may one read of this independent test comparing similar models comparing the Leupold VX-III vs. the Bushnell Elite 4200?

On my computer, or do your own research. It won't change your mind, will it?

Leaf springs weaken faster

Says who? SIGHTRON?[/quote]

The SMI Handbook
of Spring Design

 

[big6x6]

On my computer, or do your own research. I won't change your mind, will it?

If such a test WERE available, it sure could and has before!

Opinion....That's what I thought!

 

[Anonymous]

Coil springs are lighter, have no internal friction, and take up very little space.

You are right about one thing: I need some eye relief.

Tube design is nothing new, it is so very basic-- 30mm tubes of the same wall thickness and material are also stronger; mercifully, regardless of brand.

 

[Rifleman]

Sightron still blows :goodman:

 

[Doohan]

Sightron still blows

 

[Admin]