Button rifled barrel questions

[michiganmuzzy]

Ive got a button rifled .45 barrel 1:18” twist, coming and im going to shoot sabot bullets thru it. But i will want to shoot some bore riders thru it occasionally, lead or jacketed. Been advised that they may not do great, but i know guys have to have had some success. I didn't get a barrel drop to make a full form sizer, so thats out. Anyway, I’m just going to play around and see what shoots.

 

[ElDiablo]

That what I’ve been mainly shooting for the past year and a half with sabots and sized bullets.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

That what I’ve been mainly shooting for the past year and a half with sabots and sized bullets.

Which bullet you shooting?

 

[ElDiablo]

195-240 gr .40 in HLBS.

250-400 gr .45 sized bullets.

 

[earlwb]

The rifling method should not matter. But it is more bullet length and weight in relation to the rifling twist rate that matters. Shorter lighter weight bullets do better with slower twist rates. While longer heavier bullets do best with a faster twist rate. Granted there is compromise in it to choose a twist rate that is more or less in between too.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

The rifling method should not matter. But it is more bullet length and weight in relation to the rifling twist rate that matters. Shorter lighter weight bullets do better with slower twist rates. While longer heavier bullets do best with a faster twist rate. Granted there is compromise in it to choose a twist rate that is more or less in between too.

Yes, but i hear from some who shoot a lot of different bullet types from many different barrels that it does seem to make a difference what kind of rifling. Button rifling may favor sabots and cut rifling may favor conicals. Now i dont claim to even know the difference in the two processes, its just what i hear. I wonder how a hammer forged barrel would perform as a .45 fast twist smokeless ml? To my knowledge no one makes one, although those old Ruger 77/50s may have been hammer forged.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

195-240 gr .40 in HLBS.

250-400 gr .45 sized bullets.

What brand are those .45s?

 

[ElDiablo]

What brand are those .45s?

I’ve shot Furys, Parkers, Barnes, Hornady and TC .45 bullets.

Button rifling may favor sabots and cut rifling may favor conicals.

Yes, that’s the common thinking - that button-rifled barrels are good for sabots and cut-rifled barrels will generally be more consistent and better for sized bullet-to-bore. These are just generalities though. My button-rifled McGowen is very consistent and shoots sized jacketed bullets (and sabots) very well.

 

[mwwoodman]

The rifling method should not matter. But it is more bullet length and weight in relation to the rifling twist rate that matters. Shorter lighter weight bullets do better with slower twist rates. While longer heavier bullets do best with a faster twist rate. Granted there is compromise in it to choose a twist rate that is more or less in between too.

A button rifled barrel is never guaranteed to be consistent enough to work well with full bore. It may or may not have tight/loose spots.
More guaranteed to be consistent is a cut rifled barrel. This is the preferred barrel for smooth sized bullets.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Try some 250-300 grain .452 cal. Hornady XTP's. Inexpensive, easy to size, obturate well, you may need a veggie or fiber wad. I've shot them thru cheaply made CVA 45-70 converted SML barrels and expensive .458 Brux barrels with good accuracy.

 

[earlwb]

That is interesting. Button rifled barrels are shown to be more accurate and wear longer in the modern cartridge guns. Cut rifled barrels are less accurate in the modern cartridge guns. I suspect it has to do with the sharpness of the corners in the cut rifled barrels and maybe the depth too. Thus lead bullets do better in that respect to the harder jacketed bullets.

The hammer forged barrel rifling is popular with large numbers of barrels being mass produced, mostly for military purposes. They can even shape the chambers for final reaming too. But the mandrel is expensive to make and you cannot change rifling parameters without making another mandrel. But they can literally make hundreds if not thousands of barrels a day with this method.

Button rifling more for commercial made barrels in a mass production environment too. But not as many as for military uses. It tends to work harden the inside of the barrel and requires very little cleanup or polishing afterwards. It is easier to change the twist rate of the rifling too.

Cut rifling uses a cutter tool that cuts each rifled groove one at a time inside of the barrel. You can more easily change the rifling parameters such as groove depth or twist rate too. But the barrel needs clean up and polishing afterwards too.

The ED electron discharge methods used are primarily for making the tungsten button inserts used to make the rifling with. Tungsten is super hard and difficult to machine. They used to use diamond powder with grinders to machine the tungsten buttons. Using the ED method to cut the rifling tends to leave it too rough to work well.

The Broach method used a special made broach cutter that is pressed through the barrel to cut the rifling. They tend to use this method more for pistol barrels though. It tends to give you a cut rifled barrel too. The broach is very expensive to make as compared to the tooling used with the other methods.

Yeah there are pros and cons to all of the methods used to make the rifling in gun barrels. None of the methods is really perfect.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Because of its fast twist im going to see how some of my 340i & 535gr bullets do. I haven’t poured any of the 535s in a while so I’ll have to clean up that mould. I need to order some harder lead to try out too.

 

[eekjellander]

Ive got a button rifled .45 barrel 1:18” twist, coming and im going to shoot sabot bullets thru it. But i will want to shoot some bore riders thru it occasionally, lead or jacketed. Been advised that they may not do great, but i know guys have to have had some success. I didn't get a barrel drop to make a full form sizer, so thats out. Anyway, I’m just going to play around and see what shoots.

My Baco 443/444 530 gr eliptical molds both like 20-1 /16-1 hardness on a Cabin tree/Lee testers 32 inch17 twist Rice and C Sharps 34 inch Badger barrel 18 twist / 1250-1300fps , don't know about smokeless /Ed