Cleaning confusion

[howieb]

Hi. New here, and new to a muzzleloader. I haven't even shot one yet.

CVS Optima V2. I cleaned the barrel of manufacturing oil in preparation for shooting, as recommended. What I'm confused about is whether the breech plug should be in or out, and the effects of having the breech plug out. If I watch the CVA video on cleaning, they clean with the breech plug in, which means that the patch remains on the jag throughout the process, and the brass jag won't touch the barrel walls. However, to use Barrel Blaster foam, the breech plug should be out, and the foam expands out of both ends of the barrel. Pushing a patch through, the patch falls off when it comes out, and then I have to pull back the brass jag, which undoubtedly touches the sides of the barrel.

Is this something I should be concerned about?

Also, Allen cleaning kit, multi-piece rod. Anyone use a little loctite or something else to tighten the thread so they don't loosen while cleaning? Something else?

-Howie

 

[Frank in Fairfield]

Howie,
I have my first inline muzzle loader too. A TC Triumph. I say, if you can remove the breech plug for cleaning do it. Why? So you can clean from the back like we do with our smokeless powder burners. When you start shooting you will find that the breech plug gets a bunch of soot in the threads so you might just as well remove it And clean it too. When putting the plug in do not forget anti-seizing material. To do a good cleaning you should put the barrel in a wood type vice and then you can get in some good stroking with your bronze brush on your cleaning rod. When I clean my Renegade I do not have the luxury of de-breeching it for cleaning. I use a jag with boiling water to clean it. I remove the nipple and put the breech into a bucket of boiling water and draw the water through the nipple seat into the barrel. It doesn’t take long to clean it. Boiling water is used of course so the metal heats up to dry fast and prevent rust

 

[michiganmuzzy]

X2. Remove the plug and clean from the rear.

 

[howieb]

I appreciate the responses, but I'm really focused on that question about pulling the rod back through the barrel without a patch separating the jag from the barrel. Also the loctite question.

 

[HC]

The brass jag isn’t going to damage the barrel. Go ahead and glue the threaded ramrod if you don’t ever want to break it down.

 

[deermanok]

Those Allen kits are kinda junky but it will work for now.
As mentioned, remove the breech plug, swab the barrel from the back end, being careful with the threads in the barrel. Most important to use some kind of grease on the breech plug threads before you reinstall it.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Like they said. The rod breaks down for convenience. You definitely can loctite it together. The brass wont harm your bore at all. Cleaning your barrel like they do in the vid is ok but taking out the plug lets you clean it(plug) thoroughly and check it's flash hole for wear from time to time. The 209 primers themselves will leave buildup in the plug that water wont touch so you have to soak it or clean it with other products.

 

[howieb]

Thanks. Very reassuring about the jag. Regarding the multi-piece rod, I really just want to tighten the threads so they don't come loose while cleaning, but still want to break it down. I thought blue loctite might tighten the threads, but still allow me to break it down, maybe requiring tools the first time, but keeping the threads tighter after that.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

HowieB you should maybe buy the brass rod that Rojo just listed in the classified section. Its a really nice one at a good price.
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/life-long-range-rod.39953/

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Sorry, I just PM'd the OP that I wanted the range rod.

 

[sdporter]

Brass and aluminum are both softer than your barrel so you won’t get any damage from them, like trying to cut wood with a bar of soap, not gonna happen.
I only break mine clear down after I’m done shooting.
Just a patch or two down the bore between shots or groups is all you need to do while at the range, leave your plug in for this.
If you find your breech plug is hard to remove when you get home, you can break it loose every few shots and retighten it. That will help with that. Pay careful attention to the instructions for tightening in the breech plug initially. I didn’t and ruined a breech plug.
I’m not familiar with your cleaning rod but possibly a wrap of Teflon tape on the threads or a small nylon washer between sections might help it stay together for you while cleaning.
Good luck and welcome to the rabbit hole.

 

[Shorty]

Hi Howie, welcome to the site! Like all the great advice the guys gave you i just have to add my 2 cents. If you clean between shots from the muzzle end, make 100% sure that if you put 1 patch on the jag, you get one out. What you put in MUST come out..they have a special jag to remove patches from inside the bore, it has two wires that are in the shape of a circle that will grab a fallen off patch in your bore. Good luck and good shooting..

 

[howieb]

...they have a special jag to remove patches from inside the bore...

Hey, thanks Shorty. I just picked one up for $3.50 free shipping. Seems like a good thing to have in the kit.

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

Don't worry about your cleaning rod threads coming loose while cleaning, it is just following the rifling of the bore. Right hand twist rifling will unthread your rod, if the twist of rifling is 1:28 and the threads on your rod are 1:32 it will unthread about 2 threads in a 24" barrel. Your rod will not come apart. A one piece rod, the jag will unscrew as it follows the rifling, so no way around it.
Brass won't hurt your barrel.

 

[mnoland30]

Buy yourself some automotive anti-sieze compound and you'll have a lifetime supply. Just what comes off the end of a toothpick will do the job. I have one muzzleloader that requires breakdown of the rifle to remove the breechplug. I only do it once a year. When I do, I find that the plug is clean.

When cleaning from the breech, Just put your finger over the muzzle and stop pushing the jag when it hits your finger. Then you can pull the patch out through the breech. On my Accura, the patch always pulls off in the threads, so I have a long tweezer in my kit to retrieve it. Brass can eventually scratch steel, but it takes a while. People use brass screws in a drill to clean up the crown on muzzles.

CVA says to remove the firing pin every time you clean your rifle. It is a PITA, so I only do it occasionally. If you use Winchester 209s, they have less blowback because they are a bit longer.

Usually, your first shot won't go where the following shots go. To pre-foul your barrel, fire of a couple of primers (if you can spare them). They aren't corrosive, and they will make that first shot go close to the rest.
If you're using Blackhorn 209 or loose powder (highly recommended), you'll want to use the breech plug that has a big hole in the powder end. Apparently, CVA is now shipping both plugs with their rifles. With Blackhorn, you use solvents just like with a centerfire. All other products clean fine with hot water and a little Dawn dish soap. Some folks use Windex with ammonia.

One more thing. Make sure to mark your ramrod so you can tell when your load is all the way down. If you don't get it pushed all the way down, your rifle can explode. I like to mark it on an empty barrel as well, so when I get interuputed while loading, I can determine whether I've poured powder already.

Good luck, and enjoy. If you read this forum regularly, you'll learn a lot.

 

[howieb]

Don't worry about your cleaning rod threads coming loose while cleaning, it is just following the rifling of the bore. Right hand twist rifling will unthread your rod, if the twist of rifling is 1:28 and the threads on your rod are 1:32 it will unthread about 2 threads in a 24" barrel. Your rod will not come apart. A one piece rod, the jag will unscrew as it follows the rifling, so no way around it.
Brass won't hurt your barrel.

I guess I'm surprised by the de-threading while cleaning. I thought the "free" T handle at the top would prevent it, allowing the jag to turn as needed. That's why I was looking for something to tighten the threads

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

I try to always clean through the breech end on my rifles. When I prepare a clean muzzleloader for shooting, I go through the muzzle when removing oil from the bore. I use an inexpensive bore guide to protect the crown, I also use it when reloading.

The one I use
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/asg-bore-guide/

 

[howieb]

Buy yourself some automotive anti-sieze compound and you'll have a lifetime supply. Just what comes off the end of a toothpick will do the job. I have one muzzleloader that requires breakdown of the rifle to remove the breechplug. I only do it once a year. When I do, I find that the plug is clean.

Yes. I had read using Bore Butter works, and that's what's on there now, but then reading more it sounded like that would be a bad idea if it got past the breech. So I ordered some anti-sieze to use instead. The Bore Butter, for this purpose, sucks. It just melts all over.

People use brass screws in a drill to clean up the crown on muzzles.

I had to look that up... I imagine it is the lapping compound that shapes the steel, and not the brass?

Apparently, CVA is now shipping both plugs with their rifles.

Not with the Optima.

One more thing. Make sure to mark your ramrod so you can tell when your load is all the way down. If you don't get it pushed all the way down, your rifle can explode. I like to mark it on an empty barrel as well, so when I get interrupted while loading, I can determine whether I've poured powder already.

I have a bit of a dilemma related to this. The ramrod doesn't reach all the way to the breech. I think it will only bottom with at least one pellet / 50 grains plus a bullet. So you wouldn't know without proceeding to load whether or not there was already something in there. The 3-piece Allen rod would work, however the threads on the end will only accept their jag, which is conical, but not without an empty center area to accept a polymer tipped bullet without damaging it. It will not accept the factory jag, which *is* empty in the center, like the ramrod. The factory jag *will* fit if I only use 2 sections of the Allen rod, but then if I bottom it in the barrel, it appears that the remaining space is a little less than a 50 grain pellet. It's worse if I use a guide. The danger is that if I'm interrupted after loading one pellet, and I forget, this method might be too risky to determine if there's a pellet already there. Always loading one pellet at a time seems ripe for a mistake.

I think I'm talking myself into getting a range rod that would work. Unless you think using that conical, but not empty-centered jag, would be safe to use for loading polymer tipped bullets. Or maybe there's another solution I haven't thought of, or I haven't thought this through entirely. I might be able to drill out the Allen jag a bit...

Good luck, and enjoy. If you read this forum regularly, you'll learn a lot.

I've learned so much already!

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

You mark your ramrod WITH your load in the barrel, if it disappears into the barrel, you don't have a load in it.
If somewhere in between, you either charged with no projectile or dry loaded with no powder, don't ask how I know,

 

[howieb]

So in that case, do you remove the breech to see if you partially loaded? Or what’s In there? Not fully loaded, but not necessarily empty if the rod never bottoms.