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I had a something similar happen to me Slickhead. In summer of '87 I got my first muzleloader (T/C Renegade .54 kit) when I was in high school. My home state was offering its first dedicated ML deer season that fall and I wanted in on the extra hunting time. I knew nothing about ML'ers and neither did my Pop. I bought Pyrodex, Maxi Balls, RB's and patches to shoot. At the time I though RB's were too slow to load (I thought I needed a second shot ASAP) and found that 100gr. Pyrodex and a 430gr. Maxi Ball shot good enough at 50 yards and loaded easy. The ML'er deer season wasn't until December. In October I heard about a ML/black powder shoot about 30 minutes away. So I show up and people are dressed in costume and the like. I go to sign up and the old guy (everybody is old when you are 17) running the shoot explains that only round balls are "legal". He could tell I had no clue what I was doing and was happy to let me shoot the course for no score. Nice guy and offered encouragement. So I start shooting and some old grouch got all bent out of shape that I was shooting Maxi Balls. Started bitching loudly about it to the point I felt very unwelcome. I felt kinda intimidated and just left. When I think back on that day I can't believe someone would run off a kid trying to get into the sport. I have always liked side hammer ML'ers and own 20 of them and 4 inlines. I have zero interest in shooting inlines for fun. The only reason I have inlines is because my buddies and I like to do deer drives with ML'ers a couple times a year. We go into bramble piles, thorny thickets, briars and brush so thick that sometimes you have to crawl through part of the time. I have no problem dragging a plastic stock/stainless inline in there to get banged around. I could never bring myself to destroy a wood stocked side hammer rifle in that stuff. As the NMLRA membership has fallen they only had themselves to blame. I think they are turning the corner but I hope it's not too little too late. The opportunity is there to get some inline guys into traditional guns.There are people who hunted with centerfire rifles for years and after much success it became "too easy". So they took up inlines or bowhunting. I think there is potential to get some of these type people into old school guns.
 
Wait a minute, I thought we didn't like them bashing us?? So lets not bash them. If that's what they like to do then so be it. Let them enjoy their guns and hunting and we enjoy ours.
you're right. its so easy to get pulled into the name calling and 'us vs them' thinking. if any are following this thread, I apologize.
 
The funny part is you can bet your butt that crying traditionalist on a hunting board will be up a tree in his modern climber, wearing his hightech thermals, looking at his smart phone with GPS while he bawls his butt off about inlines on the forum. :p

Haha, yep. Its the same thing in the bow world. Im a misfit there too, I like trad bows AND shoot X bow. (once you learn a recurve, its like a shotgun, point and shoot. all instinctive, no real aiming. To me its an advantage over compound. I can shoot in awkward positions much better, or even shoot from the hip, and almost always snap shoot. or release at the instant of full draw. theres no line up sights and pick a distance aim time like a compound. But once the weather gets cold, and I have to wear a bunch of clothes, I loose a lot of the feel, so I switch to an x bow)
 
Are/is 'rock throwing' legal during the antique or alternative weapons season. What grain and caliber rock do you use? My arm aint what it used to be
Any good aerodynamic rock will do. Used to do it when I was young but, my dad made me throw left-handed because I tore them up to bad throwing right handed :p
 
I have a true story that happened to me years ago( mid to late 90's)
I saw advertisements of a primitive snow shoe muzzle loader shoot in northern Vermont. I owned nothing "primitive" I had an inline, modern wool clothing and aluminum framed snow shoes. I called the guy in charge and asked if it was strictly primitive gear and he very quickly stated it was NOT primitive only and they encourage ALL muzzle loader enthusiasts to participate, so I sent the entry fee through the mail. I show up with my wife, if looks could kill!! Then finally some throw back retard actually told me this shoot was for primitive enthusiasts only! I then told him I called the guy who was orchestrating the whole event and he encouraged me and all muzzle loading enthusiasts to attend! He walked off all pissed off.
Then it happened again, then more looks!
I turned to my wife and said these grown men are children who are playing dress up and we need to leave, we went back to the place we rented for the weekend and it ended up being a vacation for my wife and I! Snow shoeing, dinner, hanging out! We had a good time despite the fools at that event.
Through the years I've noticed that every single hobby/pass time have there small group of purest that defy logic and every other sensical thing!
I’ve been going to the Southern VT Primitive Biathlon for the last few years with my 3 daughters and I’m happy to report that every single person I’ve encountered has been kind and helpful. We’ve been shooting traditional sidelocks and wood framed snowshoes but modern clothing. I have seen other folks carrying inline rifles and they seemed to be enjoying themselves.
 
I’ve been going to the Southern VT Primitive Biathlon for the last few years with my 3 daughters and I’m happy to report that every single person I’ve encountered has been kind and helpful. We’ve been shooting traditional sidelocks and wood framed snowshoes but modern clothing. I have seen other folks carrying inline rifles and they seemed to be enjoying themselves.

That’s a good thing!
Not sure if that’s the same outfit or not, the one I went to years ago was way up north near smugglers notch.
 
I have a true story that happened to me years ago( mid to late 90's)
I saw advertisements of a primitive snow shoe muzzle loader shoot in northern Vermont. I owned nothing "primitive" I had an inline, modern wool clothing and aluminum framed snow shoes. I called the guy in charge and asked if it was strictly primitive gear and he very quickly stated it was NOT primitive only and they encourage ALL muzzle loader enthusiasts to participate, so I sent the entry fee through the mail. I show up with my wife, if looks could kill!! Then finally some throw back retard actually told me this shoot was for primitive enthusiasts only! I then told him I called the guy who was orchestrating the whole event and he encouraged me and all muzzle loading enthusiasts to attend! He walked off all pissed off.
Then it happened again, then more looks!
I turned to my wife and said these grown men are children who are playing dress up and we need to leave, we went back to the place we rented for the weekend and it ended up being a vacation for my wife and I! Snow shoeing, dinner, hanging out! We had a good time despite the fools at that event.
Through the years I've noticed that every single hobby/pass time have there small group of purest that defy logic and every other sensical thing!
Thanks for sharing a great story & BRAVO at the end. Kind regards
 
I think it’s divisions that they want. Separate seasons, separate clubs, separate forums.
I probably own 15 plus muzzleloaders, about half inlines and half percussion sidelocks. I enjoy shooting all of them and I use them for different things.
It sounds like some of those ppl got left behind the Hale Bopp Comet back in 97 & prob shoulda really been onboard. It's like Jeeeeezzzzzz what simple life's pleasures cant idiots & A/H´s don't try to F up. I don't friggin get it really. Enjoy & appreciate everything as much as you can for as long as you can. Kind regards
 
A year or two ago, I noticed this same demeanor towards the modern ml from this same forum- one guy in particular.
I really got to him when I stated some like: “certainly a man of your traditional values wouldn’t dare be shooting a ML with Spain or Italy roll stamped on the barrel? Or even a reproduction ML? It would certainly be 100% made in USA? I look forward to start dialog on the originals in which you shoot?”
I never heard or saw any reply post.
Afterward, I thought I might have been too harsh not knowing anyone’s status- but to some of his followed who read, I hope it made them think.
 
A year or two ago, I noticed this same demeanor towards the modern ml from this same forum- one guy in particular.
I really got to him when I stated some like: “certainly a man of your traditional values wouldn’t dare be shooting a ML with Spain or Italy roll stamped on the barrel? Or even a reproduction ML? It would certainly be 100% made in USA? I look forward to start dialog on the originals in which you shoot?”
I never heard or saw any reply post.
Afterward, I thought I might have been too harsh not knowing anyone’s status- but to some of his followed who read, I hope it made them think.
I always strive to be that cool headed and clever when arguing. But always seem to fail miserably.
 
I would hope that when it's my turn to sit with the graybeards at any kind of match, I could be like the guys & gals that let me shoot my first Cowboy Action match. This is another long one, but nearly 20 years have passed and this is the first opportunity I've encountered where sharing it seems relevant to an existing discussion.

It's important to note that at that time, nearly all of what little meaningful shooting experience I had, had been conducted in boyhood on Ohio farmland with the 20 gauge SXS my Grandpa gave me or a borrowed .22, or using government issued weapon systems in military service. As an adult I had also done CCW courses, a bit of hunting, infrequent defensive pistol training, and of course some public range sight-ins and a little private land plinking with friends. But I had never been involved with civilian shooting disciplines on any kind of organized basis before deciding to check out "Cowboy Action Shooting."

I showed up early for the new shooter safety class. Newly married on enlisted pay with a car payment and the ink still wet on my first mortgage, I basically rolled pennies for gas to get to the range that day. I arrived in a $3 thrift shop "Indiana Jones" hat, street jeans, one of my Dad's old flannel shirts and some rubber-soled Rocky brand Wellingtons covered in concrete splatter from moonlighting with a sidewalk contractor. I expected to have to repeat the excuse all day: "First time, sorry, this is the best I can do, just here to watch & learn the ropes, not planning to shoot the match." I figured they'd take my check and send me home with my own new copy of the rules book and a warning against coming back until I'd read it cover to cover and could comply with it in spirit and letter. I had read up enough to know my stock Stevens 20 gauge was legal, as were my Win 94 .44 Mag carbine with the peep sight removed, and my wife's Single Six .32 H&R with fixed sights - using factory-loaded lead RNFP .44 Special and .32 S&W Long "plinking" ammo. But since I didn't have the second revolver needed for most stages (or even a holster for the first), I had pretty much just brought them in order to subject my meager collection to critique after the match, and maybe punch some paper if there was daylight left after all the CAS folks had cleared the range.

Instead, I saw men & women alike digging into their car trunks, truck boxes & gear totes; before I knew it, I was dressed for success as a Spaghetti Western extra in loaner gunleather, with a new temp SASS member card, and an experienced shooter hanging onto me like a dance coach through the mass safety brief, stage walk-throughs, and live fire stages all day. Somebody hung his spare pair of .45 LC Vaqueros on me and kept shoving fresh ammo into the cartridge loops on my borrowed belt between stages. I used my own ammo in my own rifle, but I don't even think I shot my own shotshells that day. At no point was I ever left wondering where to go, or what to do next, or how to do it correctly.

The only comments about my hat (other than a tiny bit of good-natured ribbing) were that I should affix a string because some guys would deliberately shoot any hat that happened to blow downrange during a live stage. Nobody said a word about my street clothes or my Rocky Wellies. When the whole thing was over, guns were cleared & stored, everyone broke down stage props & steel and stowed it all in the big shipping container near the classroom. I was then held captive for the potluck lunch where folks started giving me everything from business cards, catalogs, and copies of load data to bandanas, coupons, a DVD or two and even a "won-but-not-needed" $50 gift card for Cabela's (whose catalog had a lot of "period" western wear aimed at the CAS community at the time). I wrote a check to join SASS early that morning, but I'm pretty sure someone spotted me for the match fee since I was told not to worry about it while I was being ushered into a camper to be fitted & kitted with someone else's investments for the day.

I stayed with it for a little over a year until Uncle Sam invited me to relocate to another exotic new locale; since then, I've liquidated all of the gear I'd bought since I've moved on to other pastimes as well as other places - and life & fatherhood have handed me new priorities as well. I'm not interested in returning to CAS, mainly because I'd hate to have my memory of it all ruined by a repeat exposure that might fall too far short of my first run where the People Factor is concerned. But Man, Dang and Wow, was that ever a fine way to be welcomed into a new sport! And I sincerely hope that if I get involved in any organized discipline again one day, I find myself on the kind of Welcome Committee I enjoyed in CAS, and not the sort described in other accounts on this thread.

(And Yes, I placed dead last that day - with plenty of procedural penalties added to my snail-paced stage times - but no safety violations, thanks to the mentor over my shoulder who just wouldn't let that happen!)
 
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Any good aerodynamic rock will do. Used to do it when I was young but, my dad made me throw left-handed because I tore them up to bad throwing right handed :p
"A 9mm might expand, but river rocks don't shrink."
 
I had a something similar happen to me Slickhead. In summer of '87 I got my first muzleloader (T/C Renegade .54 kit) when I was in high school. My home state was offering its first dedicated ML deer season that fall and I wanted in on the extra hunting time. I knew nothing about ML'ers and neither did my Pop. I bought Pyrodex, Maxi Balls, RB's and patches to shoot. At the time I though RB's were too slow to load (I thought I needed a second shot ASAP) and found that 100gr. Pyrodex and a 430gr. Maxi Ball shot good enough at 50 yards and loaded easy. The ML'er deer season wasn't until December. In October I heard about a ML/black powder shoot about 30 minutes away. So I show up and people are dressed in costume and the like. I go to sign up and the old guy (everybody is old when you are 17) running the shoot explains that only round balls are "legal". He could tell I had no clue what I was doing and was happy to let me shoot the course for no score. Nice guy and offered encouragement. So I start shooting and some old grouch got all bent out of shape that I was shooting Maxi Balls. Started bitching loudly about it to the point I felt very unwelcome. I felt kinda intimidated and just left. When I think back on that day I can't believe someone would run off a kid trying to get into the sport. I have always liked side hammer ML'ers and own 20 of them and 4 inlines. I have zero interest in shooting inlines for fun. The only reason I have inlines is because my buddies and I like to do deer drives with ML'ers a couple times a year. We go into bramble piles, thorny thickets, briars and brush so thick that sometimes you have to crawl through part of the time. I have no problem dragging a plastic stock/stainless inline in there to get banged around. I could never bring myself to destroy a wood stocked side hammer rifle in that stuff. As the NMLRA membership has fallen they only had themselves to blame. I think they are turning the corner but I hope it's not too little too late. The opportunity is there to get some inline guys into traditional guns.There are people who hunted with centerfire rifles for years and after much success it became "too easy". So they took up inlines or bowhunting. I think there is potential to get some of these type people into old school guns.
I asked to shoot a blackpowder match at my LGC a few years ago, as a way to get to know a sidehammer .50 I own but haven't fired. I read the rules that the club had posted online and determined that while I wouldn't be competitive, my equipment offered no technological advantage over what everyone else had if I used Pyrodex and patched round balls. I called & asked, answered questions about what I had, and was told they'd love to see some new faces.

Morning of the match, I showed up and was told that my T/C Gray Hawk was "illegal" because of its stainless steel construction and synthetic stock with rubber butt pad. I asked if I could shoot for no scoring placement anyway, figuring my money was still good, but was promptly informed that "targets are expensive, and our time is limited." There were all of 9 people at the range, not counting myself. (Several had rifles with laced-on leather butt pads which obviously covered some hidden soft padding, causing me to scratch my head over the prohibition against the screwed-on rubber pad on my T/C.)

The group claims NMLRA affiliation, which might be why they couldn't compromise whatever rules govern their sport, but it was still off-putting to me. Worst part was as I went to leave, the guy who'd rather curtly and bureaucratically told me to get my mutt "modern" rifle away from their pedigreed wood stocked thoroughbreds asked me how much I'd take for my Gray Hawk. I replied "I don't really know; seems I'd have to find out how it shoots somewhere else before I could decide whether or not to part with it."
 
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I like shooting guns, almost any guns. I’m not into playing dress up to do it though. I wouldn’t try and keep anyone out of my club or off my range if they showed up in buckskins, that’s the difference between the zealots and most others.
I actually enjoyed getting costumed up for the high school musical back in the day, and like you I enjoy shooting just about any kind of gun. But yes, also like you, I think I'll keep the two pastimes separated - at least until I figure out how to make myself a pair of buckskin boots that'll accommodate my custom carbon fiber prescription orthotic instep supports.
 
I asked to shoot a blackpowder match at my LGC a few years ago, as a way to get to know a sidehammer .50 I own but haven't fired. I read the rules that the club had posted online and determined that while I wouldn't be competitive, my equipment offered no technological advantage over what everyone else had if I used Pyrodex and patched round balls. I called & asked, answered questions about what I had, and was told they'd love to see some new faces.

Morning of the match, I showed up and was told that my T/C Gray Hawk was "illegal" because of its stainless steel construction and synthetic stock with rubber butt pad. I asked if I could shoot for no scoring placement anyway, figuring my money was still good, but was promptly informed that "targets are expensive, and our time is limited." There were all of 9 people at the range, not counting myself. (Several had rifles with laced-on leather butt pads which obviously covered some hidden soft padding, causing me to wonder about the prohibition against the screwed-on rubber pad on my T/C.)

The group claims NMLRA affiliation, which might be why they couldn't compromise whatever rules govern their sport, but it was still off-putting to me. Worst part was as I went to leave, the guy who'd rather curtly and bureaucratically told me to get my mutt "modern" rifle away from their pedigreed wood stocked thoroughbreds asked me how much I'd take for my Gray Hawk. I replied "I don't really know; seems I'd have to find out how it shoots somewhere else before I could decide whether or not to part with it."[/QUOTE think NMLRA has anything to do with it so why
Group might have been a charter club but NMLRA doesn't make their rules
 

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