Contacted CVA

[GM54-120]

Sizing the 325gr FTX down to .454 can be done...Ive done it many times even with a hand press

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

I'm going to try this same thing. I was looking at the Hornady 325gr FTX but I don't want to buy 50 of them and find out it won't work. I can't imagine it wouldn't though. Going down to .454 from .458 isn't all that much. I'm just concerned about damage to the bullet being done by the smooth sizing process that would cause issues with terminal performance.

The jacket on the Hornady FTX is pretty thick. You may have to size it in several steps to get the size you want.

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[Pathfinder60]

The jacket on the Hornady FTX is pretty thick. You may have to size it in several steps to get the size you want.

.

I intended to do just that. One of the nice things about using a Hankin's smooth sizing die is the ease of adjustment.
That surprises me actually since those bullets for were designed for lever guns and the slower velocities they produce...

 

[GM54-120]

I dont think you can get a .458 bullet in his 45cal sizing dies. Pretty sure it will need to be under .454

 

[GM54-120]

The jacket on the Hornady FTX is pretty thick. You may have to size it in several steps to get the size you want.

.

The jacket is thinner than the SST/FTX 300gr

 

[GM54-120]

The bullet to use is the Sierra 300gr FNHP if you want to try a 458 that is super easy to size down. Core is soft and the jacket is much thinner like the Hornady.

 

[Pathfinder60]

I dont think you can get a .458 bullet in his 45cal sizing dies. Pretty sure it will need to be under .454

That's interesting. I have a Hank's 50 cal die that I use to size down Dennis's 320gr Star Tip 2Ps for my Prairie Rifle but don't actually have a 45cal die yet because up to now, I've been knurling everything up to fit rather than sizing down. I didn't consider that a 45cal die opened all the way up wouldn't allow a .458 bullet to make an initial pass. Thanks for suggesting that possibility. I believe I'll contact him and see what he says before I order. If in fact you are correct, I wonder if a Swing-lock would be as equally restrictive? I have but to inquire to find out. Thanks again for putting that idea forth!

 

[Mnt monkey]

Just a question to everyone administration and members,, do you think CVA has someone daily that gets up and reads sites like modern muzzleloader?, I cannot imagine running a business like that and not having someone within the company that constantly reads the comments, positions, and opinions of their market,,online comments must have an influence on current and future design, I say that with the understanding that business philosophy is different in other countries
I would love to see a representative from cva comment here, even if it was just rarely, like you see some of the American builders who are members here and may not be daily active but they do comment from time to time with respect to their own gun designs. I personally respect CVA and bergara ability to build a quality product, they have proven that with other models that I personally had a lot of trigger time with, but again all the issues with the 45 Cal barrels to me just are not right,, if the bore dimensions were changed again I would be the first in line to buy multiple guns,, might even buy some of those blue spaceships.. I hope we see the bore change down the road if not there sure is a lot of room in the American market for a decent fast twist rifle like The Patriot.

 

[Pathfinder60]

The bullet to use is the Sierra 300gr FNHP if you want to try a 458 that is super easy to size down. Core is soft and the jacket is much thinner like the Hornady.

I appreciate the suggestion...but it appears they are unavailable literally everywhere online. I might luck out and find some sitting on a shelf somewhere I suppose.
What are your thoughts on these?
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010460187?pid=138115

 

[Pathfinder60]

Just a question to everyone administration and members,, do you think CVA has someone daily that gets up and reads sites like modern muzzleloader?, I cannot imagine running a business like that and not having someone within the company that constantly reads the comments, positions, and opinions of their market,,online comments must have an influence on current and future design, I say that with the understanding that business philosophy is different in other countries
I would love to see a representative from cva comment here, even if it was just rarely, like you see some of the American builders who are members here and may not be daily active but they do comment from time to time with respect to their own gun designs. I personally respect CVA and bergara ability to build a quality product, they have proven that with other models that I personally had a lot of trigger time with, but again all the issues with the 45 Cal barrels to me just are not right,, if the bore dimensions were changed again I would be the first in line to buy multiple guns,, might even buy some of those blue spaceships.. I hope we see the bore change down the road if not there sure is a lot of room in the American market for a decent fast twist rifle like The Patriot.

That's an interesting question and I believe one we may well never have an answer for because of them wishing to maintain plausible deniability. Unfortunately I have become cynical when it come to big businesses such as BPI. An individual who builds guns and puts his name on them has a much greater stake in it than some faceless, multi-national organization such as BPI. I don't believe they care enough to monitor a forum like this. Nor do I think they possess the degree of humility necessary to come to the conclusion they made a grave mistake by doing what they've done with these ELR designed rifles. Hopefully, after time goes by and they finally come to the conclusion that selling some bullets doesn't make them as much money as selling entire rifles that they rethink this strategy and go back to doing what they do best. And that sure as hell isn't making bullets. Regardless, for guys like me the taste in my mouth isn't likely to ever go away.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Just a question to everyone administration and members,, do you think CVA has someone daily that gets up and reads sites like modern muzzleloader?, I cannot imagine running a business like that and not having someone within the company that constantly reads the comments, positions, and opinions of their market,,online comments must have an influence on current and future design, I say that with the understanding that business philosophy is different in other countries
I would love to see a representative from cva comment here, even if it was just rarely, like you see some of the American builders who are members here and may not be daily active but they do comment from time to time with respect to their own gun designs. I personally respect CVA and bergara ability to build a quality product, they have proven that with other models that I personally had a lot of trigger time with, but again all the issues with the 45 Cal barrels to me just are not right,, if the bore dimensions were changed again I would be the first in line to buy multiple guns,, might even buy some of those blue spaceships.. I hope we see the bore change down the road if not there sure is a lot of room in the American market for a decent fast twist rifle like The Patriot.

We have seen TC make barrel changes in the past when folks didnt like the way they built them. With the 1:20" twists. But that was a different time and a different company.

 

[stevie]

In my 45 MR-X when i load a Fury .453 STB i need a starter ramrod to get the bullet going but i need a dang hammer to drive it down. The barrel does open up with some resistance (light palm pressure) after around 13 inches or so.

When sized with a swing lock die to around .452 can use a standard ramrod to get it going and couple fingers to push the bullet rest of way (very light resistance)

A .451 bullet will literally drop down the barrel once it opens up.

How do you use a larger bullet than .453? I am new at in-lines but cannot figure out how to drive a larger bullet down the barrel.

The Fury Star Tip .402 with MMP sabot seems to fit fine, the Harvester blue with a little less resistance. Have not tried the Harvester crush yet.

 

[ourway77]

I have the solution to problem I knurld a 225 grain fury bullet and in a LBS went down the barrel with just the right amount of pressure so I am going to order 225 and 250 grain fury bullets knurled

I'm going to try this same thing. I was looking at the Hornady 325gr FTX but I don't want to buy 50 of them and find out it won't work. I can't imagine it wouldn't though. Going down to .454 from .458 isn't all that much. I'm just concerned about damage to the bullet being done by the smooth sizing process that would cause issues with terminal performance.

I tried the Hornady 325gr FTX in my smooth sizing die no go jackets must be too hard

 

[michiganmuzzy]

In my 45 MR-X when i load a Fury .453 STB i need a starter ramrod to get the bullet going but i need a dang hammer to drive it down.

That's how my .45LR is.
.453 is too tight .452 is just about right. But mine is consistent all the way down. Im not ready to let it go for the MR-X, just yet.

 

[ourway77]

That's how my .45LR is.
.453 is too tight .452 is just about right. But mine is consistent all the way down. Im not ready to let it go for the MR-X, just yet.

The bullet/sabot was consistent all the way down When it came out masured .454

 

[stevie]

Are you using the .402 Fury star tips? Those seem to be fine with the MMP sabot and possibly the Harvester Blue (which has a little less resistance)

 

[ourway77]

I kind of feel sorry for those at BPI that have to try to explain this to people,, they told me straight up that the rifles were built around their bullet,,, they need to change how the rifles are being marketed, they need to be presented to the public as only shooting the power belt bullet,, and that CVA is not responsible for anyone trying to shoot any other bullet in that barrel even though there are some alternatives. One problem though, there have been some bad batches,, production runs of their power belt bullets. I continue to be a big accura,,50 cal fan but I hope the American market rejects all of their 45 Cal rifles until the issue is changed,, to those that are happy with the power belt bullet and want to be limited to that probably still a decent rifle. It seems like the American market doesn't like being told this is your rifle this is your bullet shut up.

They are already selling them $100.00 cheaper than I paid so they must know it but don't want to recall all of the sold rifles .452 bullet fall right thru the barrel someone is going to get hurt I hope not but it's just a matter of time

 

[ourway77]

Are you using the .402 Fury star tips? Those seem to be fine with the MMP sabot and possibly the Harv bullet Blue (which has a little less resistance)

Yes star tips I still have to knurl them

 

[yoyodoc]

In 1988 I got a CVA kit; it would have required remachining to make it fire. I sent it back. After 7 kits had identical faults (among them wedge pin didn't fit, lock would have needed 1/4" ground, ramrod splintered in the box, tang screw came through at the wrong angle to fit into the trigger guard) I got a Thompson.
Three years later I got the CVA Kodiak double barrel kit for not much, saying "I will make this work." It took remachining and a different rear sight and I had to fabricate a wedge pin and redrill the tang screw hole in the trigger guard, but it did indeed go boom when I told it to. Then I shot 11 times at 35-50 yards at a buck named Lucky who couldn't figure out where I was shooting from. The buck survived, my buddies didn't let me forget the story, and 15 minutes later I could have counted coup on a doe with my ramrod. (Full disclosure, I didn't. Which I regret.) In those days long distance wasn't free and CVA's customer service didn't have a toll free number. So I wrote a letter. The reply asserted the Kodiak was 'highly accurate' being defined as a 6 inch group at 50 yards.

I sold the double barreled rifle with full disclosure. I don't think the buyer believed me.

Since then I have regarded CVA rifles and the company as manure that's not even good for gardening.

I do like their accessories.

 

[Pathfinder60]

In my 45 MR-X when i load a Fury .453 STB i need a starter ramrod to get the bullet going but i need a dang hammer to drive it down. The barrel does open up with some resistance (light palm pressure) after around 13 inches or so.

When sized with a swing lock die to around .452 can use a standard ramrod to get it going and couple fingers to push the bullet rest of way (very light resistance)

A .451 bullet will literally drop down the barrel once it opens up.

How do you use a larger bullet than .453? I am new at in-lines but cannot figure out how to drive a larger bullet down the barrel.

The Fury Star Tip .402 with MMP sabot seems to fit fine, the Harvester blue with a little less resistance. Have not tried the Harvester crush yet.

I'm using bullets knurled up to a bit over .454 because the bore in my Paramount is that much overbore. The bullets you're using would fall like a stone to the breech in my rifle.