CVA Accura V1 Loads

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by AccuraEng, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Nov 6, 2018 #1

    AccuraEng

    AccuraEng

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    So I would like to start by saying I've been a long time lurker of this site and have found it helpful so I've decided to share my experience.

    Last year was the first year I was able to develop a load that would shoot adequately for deer in my CVA Accura. When I first bought the gun several years ago I immediately purchased Blackhorn 209. I found I had ignition issues with the stock breech plug. I found the several threads by Ronlaughlin and others on this site and used the tutorials and images to cobble together a breech plug that would ignite Blackhorn 209 reliably. From that experience, I have purchased the correct vent liners and tooling to create another breech plug this year.

    The second issue I have experienced is excessive blowback. I purchased a bag of O-rings that were recommended in the forums here to place in the primer pocket. I have not tested them yet but will report back when I do.

    The third issue with the gun I have experienced is its extremely tight bore. The following are some of the bullet sabot combos and conical I have tried only to find that they load extremely hard:

    300 Grain Hornady sst high speed low drag sabot
    Barnes SPIT-FIRE TMZ 50 CAL 290 GRAIN MUZZLELOADER BULLETS
    Hornady FPB 350 Grain conical

    From last year I had two loads that loaded with an acceptable force and grouped well:

    Federal Bor-Lock 350 Grain lead 90-100 grains by volume Blackhorn 209
    Lead .44 Cal pistol bullets in a green sabot from the local muzzleloader shop. 90-100 Grains Blackhorn 209 by volume.

    I contacted Harvester Muzzleloading and they were kind enough to send me a sample of the scorpion Pt golds and sabots after I told them about my issue. These are still in the mail. I was also thinking possibly a .430" diameter XTP in a harvester crush rib green sabot might work. So to the CVA Accura owners or those with tight bores on this site what bullet sabot combinations have worked for you? I am planning on making the new breech plug/test o-rings, dropping my scope with lower rings, and testing load combinations around thanksgiving.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Nov 6, 2018 #2

    MrTom

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    My Vs Accura has a sort of tight barrel. I can get by with either the regular harvester sabots in green or black, but the gun shoots much nicer using crush ribs in either size. Personally I shoot and hunt the green crush ribs in it with .44 XTP 300 grainers. My charge is 77 grains weighed [110 by volume] of 209 powder. I can shoot 20 or more rounds using this without any mis-fire or tough loading issues and the accuracy is there always.

    The 209 compatible plug is essential to happiness with the 209 powder. Whether its a direct replacement plug or one altered for using replaceable liners, you need one. I have both styles and they work wonderful.

    The blow by issue is one that can be remedied with the small rubber O-rings or by adding shims to the firing pin bushing. Both work well. I've found that using the Winchester 209 primers in the blue box cleans everything up without shimming or washers.

    There are a ton of decent pistol bullets out there as well as muzzle-loader specific stuff. You'll find mixed reviews on many of these bullets including the Spitfires you mention. Powerbelts are another. Hornady XTPs are my go-to for hunting in every one of my black powder guns, but I have Speer Deep Curls in identical weights and calibers as what the Hornady's are and I know exactly where these shoot should I decide to shoot them. Barnes and Lehigh make some super bullets as well that have a huge following here. I'd urge you to work past bullets that have been brought into terminal performance question and use one or some of those that get high marks from the posters here.
     
  3. Nov 6, 2018 #3

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

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    If you have a REALLY tight bore this should work.

    MMP Orange sabot for 50x.458 bullets but use a .452 bullet. Loaded OD with a .451 to .452 bullet should be around .499 to .500. The MMP Orange would normally be around .506 loaded OD.
     
  4. Nov 7, 2018 #4

    AccuraEng

    AccuraEng

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    Thank you both for the replys. Some good ideas. I will grab some crush rib green sabots and the xtp in .44 Cal. I have hopes that perhaps I can stay with a .44 Cal bullet in this gun. I would really like to be able to shoot the harvester white lightning bullet when they come out.

    The .458 sabot with the .452 bullet is interesting and I didn't consider that kind of a combo. Something that I will look into.
     
  5. Nov 21, 2018 #5

    AccuraEng

    AccuraEng

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    So I made a new breech plug to test a slightly different design than I previously had and added an o ring in the primer pocket. It worked great! No blowback at all. I would post a picture however I can't seem to figure it out.

    I bought some white lightning bullets 44cal 300 grain from harvester muzzleloading and managed to get some shooting in this weekend. Using the green crush rib I was able to load the gun with considerable effort but less than what I remember with sabots.

    I was shooting 1" groups at 100 yards and 2" at 200 yards. Needless to say I was impressed. Powder charge was 110 grains by volume using the blackhorn 209 charge tubes. But, when I returned home to weigh the charge I was shooting 91 grains by weight! This load should have weighed 77 grains. The charge tube was 20 grains off!

    Hoping to test the Barnes .458 400 grain bullets in the harvester crush rib for .458 bullets in a few days. Will be trying some .452 bullets with the .458 sabot as well.

    Cheers
     
  6. Nov 21, 2018 #6

    MrTom

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    If you're using a dump-type powder measure are you certain static didn't hold some powder from the previous pour and release it as the over-weight charge? I've had static do this so I no longer use the drop measure that sets the smokeless powder. I use a small ladle like cup on a handle to fill the pan on my electronic scale to within a grain or so of my weight then use a trickler to get it spot on.
     
  7. Nov 22, 2018 #7

    AccuraEng

    AccuraEng

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    All measuring happened as follows: Poured from blackhorn 209 canister into blackhorn 209 charge tubes up to 110 grains. Pour from charge tube onto Lee powder scale pan. Adjust till balanced. Scale was properly zeroed.

    When I was shooting I did not verify the charge tubes were accurate beforehand. I assumed blackhorn would make charge tubes that would actually measure their powder accurately. :wall:
     
  8. Nov 22, 2018 #8

    herschel conyers

    herschel conyers

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    I weigh all powder charges.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  9. Nov 22, 2018 #9

    MrTom

    MrTom

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    I don't pay much attention to what's stamped or embossed on charge tubes. The tubes just hold the powder, not measure it.

    Check out Lanes tubes on facebook. They're dandy tube and much less expensive than those "named" tubes sold on cards. The short ones will hold right at 84 grains [weighed] of BH209 powder. The longer ones are great for carrying sabots with bullets in the field.

    If you get the short Lanes tubes, this box for reloading shotgun shells is just the ticket for carrying them. The box has an insert in it to hold 20 gauge shells and is left in place as the Lanes tubes fit in just perfect.

    https://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/s ... s-s25d.htm

    Here's a picture of a couple these boxes with Lanes tubes.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dec 10, 2018 #10

    AccuraEng

    AccuraEng

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    MrTom that is a really nice setup. I will have to get some tubes.

    I managed to get out a few weeks ago and do some more shooting. Harvester Black crush ribs sabots and the scorpion pt gold 300 grain load the easiest out of any sabot bullet combo in my Accura. I also tried the .458 crush rib sabot and the barnes original 400 grain semi spitzer flat base. These were more difficult to load than the black crush rib and scorpion pt gold but easier than the green crush rib and white lightning.

    I will be getting some more of the Barnes bullets as they grouped better than the scorpion pt golds. I only had a sample of 5 of each so I didn't really get to do a load development.

    At the end of the day of shooting I noticed my scope was looking different. Upon investigation it had slid an inch in the rings. Needless to say a bit frustrating. I haven't had a chance to shoot it since I remounted it.
     
  11. Dec 10, 2018 #11

    MrTom

    MrTom

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    "At the end of the day of shooting I noticed my scope was looking different. Upon investigation it had slid an inch in the rings. Needless to say a bit frustrating. I haven't had a chance to shoot it since I remounted it"....

    That would have me foaming. lol

    When I mount a scope I always mount the rail or bases and loc-tite the screws with blue formula loc-tite. Then I get the rings mounted where they need to be an loc-tite the mounting screws. With the rings and scope set where they need to be I put a small strip of masking tape tight to the forward ring, on the scope tube. I put another on the top of that ring cap and pen an index mark on both. Then I lift the caps off and use a piece of fairly coarse sandpaper to scuff up the inside of the cap. Blow off any material from this light scuffing and replaced the caps being certain the alignment marks on the tape match up and then begin your tightening sequence on all of cap screws using loc-tite being certain to get things to the required torque as I go. Your scope will not slip doing this, yet the loc-tite allows the screws to be removed since it is not a hard setting product.
     
  12. Dec 11, 2018 #12

    AccuraEng

    AccuraEng

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    When I get a chance I will be looking at the rings again. They are the medium height durasight universals. If I don't switch them out I'll end up using the loctite like you suggested. They are still to high for my liking. It seems like I can never get a stock with a comb as high as I like.

    Just to do it I also filled the stock and forend With a mixture of silicone and #9 shot. Weighs in at 11lbs now and balances right at the pivot.

    I did notice with this gun when shooting that the tighter the sabot, the more accurate it shot. Has anyone else seen similar results?
    The white lightning and crush rib green shoot great I just can't trust myself to be able to load a follow-up shot reasonably quick. The .458
    crush rib and Barnes original is looking like a good middle ground.
     
  13. Dec 11, 2018 #13

    MrTom

    MrTom

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    Every gun has its own personality and will shoot some combos better than other combos....its up to you to find out which is the most accurate.
     
  14. Dec 24, 2018 #14

    samwilliamson

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    "Just to do it I also filled the stock and forend With a mixture of silicone and #9 shot. Weighs in at 11lbs now and balances right at the pivot. "

    Second time ive heard of this being done. Do you hunt with this gun? Seems like its awful heavy for hunting, tho I can appreciate the better balance. I still-hunt quite a bit and wouldn't relish extra pounds on a hunt. Has it really helped you with accuracy?

    Sent from my SM-T237P using Tapatalk
     
  15. Dec 24, 2018 #15

    MrTom

    MrTom

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    I'd balk at an 11 pound gun in the field.
     
  16. Dec 25, 2018 #16

    AccuraEng

    AccuraEng

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    Yes, I hunt with this gun. Yes, it has improved my accuracy with it. I despise the trend toward increasingly lighter guns. I find it difficult to hold them steady and they feel so cheap.

    I don't mind the added weight for the stability increase. The effects of 4 lbs can be easily negated by maintaining good physical condition.
     
  17. Dec 25, 2018 #17

    MrTom

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    I've seen the lace-on recoil pads as well as lace-on cheek risers that are available. I don't know if that's an option for your need for a higher riser AccuraEng.

    I'm 68 with copd so weight really starts to come into play for me where I hunt. The property is small, 11 acres, and is maybe 400 yards deep at the deepest end and 200 yards at the smaller end of its 1/4 mile length. The rise from the house to the stand at the top I sit in is over 400 feet and marvels at the west side of the Big Horn Mountains for steepness. I use a series of switchbacks to get up there and on a great morning that takes me about 40 minutes. I'm in great shape for the shape I'm in, but my 8 pound guns is a good plenty to haul up there and my stand has 40" sidewalls that make a great rest with me kneeling. I've killed a couple bucks out at about 130 yards from the stand but most shots fall inside of 30 yards so I have little worry about gun stability. 11 pounds marvels at the weight of my Safari Grade Model 70 in .458 without the scope, and that stays in the closet. lol
     
  18. Dec 25, 2018 #18

    AccuraEng

    AccuraEng

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    Yeah I've been looking at varying comb risers. The kydex formed seem to be the most intriguing to me just because it's fairly adjustable. I haven't the courage to drill two holes through the stock though.

    Gun weight is certainly a individual based preference and in your case MrTom I definitely understand. I just prefer them a bit heavier. I'm a fan of "Do what works for you".

    :partyman:
     
  19. Dec 25, 2018 #19

    samwilliamson

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    Re: RE: Re: CVA Accura V1 Loads

    I havent noticed that trend. Seems that guns ive look at over the last 35 years, at least, have always been in the 7-9# range. I have the Accura v2 PR. Which is in between the MR and LR Accuras in weight. I thought it would be a good compromise in balance, manuverability, and weight, and it has been. It definitely doesn't feel cheap to me. I would like a little less front weight just don't want to add that much to it overall. Although I will pickup the MR someday if the opportunity arises. 3" less barrel goes a long way toward balancing it out.

    Sent from my SM-T237P using Tapatalk
     

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