has anyone seen this before?
http://randywakeman.com/DangerousMuzzle ... istory.htm
http://www.chuckhawks.com/2009_CVA_update.htm
http://randywakeman.com/DangerousMuzzle ... istory.htm
http://www.chuckhawks.com/2009_CVA_update.htm
cva muzzleloader failues
- Thread starter sagebrush
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Other than one of the recall rifles, obviously, I'd have no fear of shooting any PROPERLY LOADED model CVA muzzleloader. I've had a CVA Eclipse for close to 9 years now, have killed about 25 deer with it and shot it hundreds of times, with zero problems.
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Yep, Randy Wakeman has been raging about CVA guns for years after the problems were taken care of. Happens that old Randy is in the pockets of an ambulance chasing Tulsa, OK lawyer. Randy is Johnny On The Spot every time a CVA gun blows up because the ball was not seated on the powder or some idiot used smokeless powder.
Some of the CVA guns that Wakeman whines about were blown up using smokeless powder. Ask yourself why it is that Wakeman has been banned form every popular muzzleloading forum.
Some of the CVA guns that Wakeman whines about were blown up using smokeless powder. Ask yourself why it is that Wakeman has been banned form every popular muzzleloading forum.
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Certain CVA products did indeed have issues, which resulted in a recall several years ago. Justifiably so. Outside of the recalls,,,well,,,you can't fix "stupid".
I quit drinking Wakeman's Kool Aid a long time ago. 8)
I quit drinking Wakeman's Kool Aid a long time ago. 8)
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Batchief909 said:
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
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Wakeman is an arse.
Some of his points were valid a one time and finding an unbiased review from him is nearly impossible.
Research things for yourself and draw your own conclusions. The only one that might still hold water is: CVA being sold in some CIP countries with strict proof testing laws. Ive tried to find proof about this and it appears to be true.
Example:
Italy and Germany have extremely tough federal proof testing laws that many brands might not care to deal with.
Some of his points were valid a one time and finding an unbiased review from him is nearly impossible.
Research things for yourself and draw your own conclusions. The only one that might still hold water is: CVA being sold in some CIP countries with strict proof testing laws. Ive tried to find proof about this and it appears to be true.
Example:
Italy and Germany have extremely tough federal proof testing laws that many brands might not care to deal with.
I will say I still have shrapnel in one shoulder from one some one else was shooting. We were shooting in a 25 & 50 yd match and since the person was new both to muzzleloading and to our club the range captain was personally overseeing him; he was shooting 80 gr of black powder and PRB and swabbing every shot.
Do you think I will ever trust CVA again? They were ban in that club. I move from that area after my wife died and I do not know if they still are.
I have no doubt they have improve in recent years as no one is suing them now as far as I know. So shoot what you want, I have a private range and can always go there to shoot.
Do you think I will ever trust CVA again? They were ban in that club. I move from that area after my wife died and I do not know if they still are.
I have no doubt they have improve in recent years as no one is suing them now as far as I know. So shoot what you want, I have a private range and can always go there to shoot.
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Batchief.. could not agree with you more.
All I can add is, I have a CVA Staghorn Magnum. I have put near a 600 rounds through it and it never has acted up. Is that to say if might... yes it might. But I load it responsible and always take care with all my rifles, no matter who built them, when I load and shoot them.
Lee I am not trying to minimize your experience. It must have been horrible and very frightening. I can sure understand why you avoid that brand of rifle. I guess I would do the same. Did they actually determine why that rifle blew? Seems like a light load to have caused that.
Read and UNDERSTAND the manual that comes with your rifle. Follow the guidelines of the manufacturer and not the expert sales clerk who's done it all. If you don't understand something or some part of the rifle, ask questions before you shoot.
All I can add is, I have a CVA Staghorn Magnum. I have put near a 600 rounds through it and it never has acted up. Is that to say if might... yes it might. But I load it responsible and always take care with all my rifles, no matter who built them, when I load and shoot them.
Lee I am not trying to minimize your experience. It must have been horrible and very frightening. I can sure understand why you avoid that brand of rifle. I guess I would do the same. Did they actually determine why that rifle blew? Seems like a light load to have caused that.
Read and UNDERSTAND the manual that comes with your rifle. Follow the guidelines of the manufacturer and not the expert sales clerk who's done it all. If you don't understand something or some part of the rifle, ask questions before you shoot.
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I am not a CVA fan at all but I think it would be hard to find a gun that doesn't have some sort of failure story in it's closet somewhere be it gun failure or shooter error.
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Okie Hog said:
And in the pockets of an employer who was injured by a recall CVA. Im sure a little extra bonus each year is there every time he writes an bad article about CVA.
This dudes website was one the first I came across when I became interested in muzzys. I quickly dismissed what he said after talking to numerous people about cva's when I was shopping for a gun. I ended up getting a cva wolf. Awesome gun for the money spent. I haven't put near as many rounds thru it as someone like cuyuga has thru his cva, but everytime I load it I have a lot of confidence in it that nothing will happen if I do my part right. You just gotta pay attention when loading, you owe to everyone around you to be safe. I will definatley buy another cva gun when I'm ready to upgrade.
M
maddog2
Guest
I've owned 2 CVA muzzleloaders. My 1st. was a big bore mtn. rifle, 54 cal., percussion. Don't know how many critters I killed with it, but it was a bunch...whitetails, hogs, and a doe antelope, in WY., circa 1981. Fast forward to last year, and I bought a Wolf. Have taken 3 deer, in the last 2 yrs., with it. Bought one for my son, and he got his 1st. ML kill with it, this season. I have zero problems with CVA.
I've read some of Wakeman's crap, over the years, and basically dismiss him as a shill-in somebody's pocket.
maddog2
I've read some of Wakeman's crap, over the years, and basically dismiss him as a shill-in somebody's pocket.
maddog2
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Talk without SCIENTIFIC PROOF is cheap BS.... and that is all Randy Wakeman is about. He has NEVER gone to the University of Illinois, etc., and had a series of proof tests performed under strict conditions to back up his claims. None. He should stict to his day job: a Magician in Chicago.
By Dudley McGarity
If you found this article while surfing the web or in a Google Search, you may have also noticed some other articles that present an extremely negative picture of both Blackpowder Products, Inc. and our CVA muzzleloading brand. Unfortunately, this is nothing new to us, as most of it relates to Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc.?s Voluntary Recall ? which was initiated way back in 1997. Most of these negative ?articles? are actually several years old, but it seems that every so often they resurface and cause a rash of new internet chatter. As the CEO of BPI, I?d like to provide you with a little background information that will give you some insight as to why these persons would practice this ?internet terrorism? against our company.
You?ll notice that all of these ?hit pieces? originate from one of two individuals. One of them has been engaged in an internet smear campaign against BPI and our CVA brand for several years now. Interestingly, the last time we checked, he works part-time for one of our competitors, Savage Arms Company. As for the other, he is a private investigator employed by a law firm that specializes in product liability lawsuits. Over the past several years, both of these men have essentially been working together for this law firm, apparently in the pursuit of clients for whom the firm can potentially file gun accident lawsuits against BPI. As a part of this effort, the private investigator has recently set up a website on which he publishes, for the most part, information from the various court filings that were made in relation to accidents that occurred during the use of these recalled CVA guns ? guns that were made in 1995 and 1996. Needless to say, neither of these ?gentlemen? could be considered unbiased commentators on CVA products. To the contrary, both have a financial interest in publicizing only the information ? be it selected, partial, distorted, and/or blatantly false ? that would provide some sort of advantage to their law firm and/or publicly damage the reputation and business of BPI/CVA.
As for the recall, it is certainly no secret that, way back in 1997, Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc. did in fact initiate a voluntary recall of one design of an in-line gun that was made in 1995 and 1996. And, it is also no secret that a number of people were injured with these guns. However, Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc. took responsibility at that time by issuing the recall, and BPI (the current owner of the CVA brand) is continuing the recall effort in an attempt to find all of these guns. So far, about 96% of the approximately 55,000 recalled guns have been accounted for. The CVA Voluntary Recall is still in effect, and BPI continues to mention this in our CVA catalogs and on our CVA web page, and will be until every recall gun is found. Other than the voluntary recall of these 1995 and 1996 guns, no other CVA gun model has ever been recalled for any reason.
If you found this article while surfing the web or in a Google Search, you may have also noticed some other articles that present an extremely negative picture of both Blackpowder Products, Inc. and our CVA muzzleloading brand. Unfortunately, this is nothing new to us, as most of it relates to Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc.?s Voluntary Recall ? which was initiated way back in 1997. Most of these negative ?articles? are actually several years old, but it seems that every so often they resurface and cause a rash of new internet chatter. As the CEO of BPI, I?d like to provide you with a little background information that will give you some insight as to why these persons would practice this ?internet terrorism? against our company.
You?ll notice that all of these ?hit pieces? originate from one of two individuals. One of them has been engaged in an internet smear campaign against BPI and our CVA brand for several years now. Interestingly, the last time we checked, he works part-time for one of our competitors, Savage Arms Company. As for the other, he is a private investigator employed by a law firm that specializes in product liability lawsuits. Over the past several years, both of these men have essentially been working together for this law firm, apparently in the pursuit of clients for whom the firm can potentially file gun accident lawsuits against BPI. As a part of this effort, the private investigator has recently set up a website on which he publishes, for the most part, information from the various court filings that were made in relation to accidents that occurred during the use of these recalled CVA guns ? guns that were made in 1995 and 1996. Needless to say, neither of these ?gentlemen? could be considered unbiased commentators on CVA products. To the contrary, both have a financial interest in publicizing only the information ? be it selected, partial, distorted, and/or blatantly false ? that would provide some sort of advantage to their law firm and/or publicly damage the reputation and business of BPI/CVA.
As for the recall, it is certainly no secret that, way back in 1997, Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc. did in fact initiate a voluntary recall of one design of an in-line gun that was made in 1995 and 1996. And, it is also no secret that a number of people were injured with these guns. However, Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc. took responsibility at that time by issuing the recall, and BPI (the current owner of the CVA brand) is continuing the recall effort in an attempt to find all of these guns. So far, about 96% of the approximately 55,000 recalled guns have been accounted for. The CVA Voluntary Recall is still in effect, and BPI continues to mention this in our CVA catalogs and on our CVA web page, and will be until every recall gun is found. Other than the voluntary recall of these 1995 and 1996 guns, no other CVA gun model has ever been recalled for any reason.
I dont know who is a bigger phony. Randy Wakeman and his crusade against CVA and Toby Bridges or Toby Bridges and his crusade against Savage and Randy Wakeman. They both seem to have axes to grind. So I ignore them both basically. I am pretty skeptical about what i read on the internet.
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doulos
Separate the wheat from the chaff.
I agree both have an agenda but both still do offer "some" useful info. Dont take their info as gospel truths but dont totally forsake them either. I never would have tried the 458 SOCOM if it wasn't for his review and it is an awesome bullet in my guns.
TB's issue with the Savage was never a blanket statement against all SMLs. He actually loves the original Henry Ball design. His issue is with Savage's version of Ball's design and IMO Mr. Ball's design is a tad better in some ways. He also left Savage under questionable circumstances but is still a big fan of Knights.
Do your own research and form your own opinion based on unbiased reviews. I do own a MLII SS/Laminate but to be honest its not what i prefer in a hunting rifle. It will be one of my "range kings" once i get it dialed in.
Both of them really like the Knight DISC based rifles and that is a part of the reason i bought my first one, the GMB54-120 which TB reviewed. It is everything he said and more IMO. It is my favorite hunting rifle by far.
I can at least talk to TB in a civil conversation but RW just gets on my nerves way too fast. RW did however post some good info on some Savage SML loads that are probably safer than some book loads.
Separate the wheat from the chaff.
I agree both have an agenda but both still do offer "some" useful info. Dont take their info as gospel truths but dont totally forsake them either. I never would have tried the 458 SOCOM if it wasn't for his review and it is an awesome bullet in my guns.
TB's issue with the Savage was never a blanket statement against all SMLs. He actually loves the original Henry Ball design. His issue is with Savage's version of Ball's design and IMO Mr. Ball's design is a tad better in some ways. He also left Savage under questionable circumstances but is still a big fan of Knights.
Do your own research and form your own opinion based on unbiased reviews. I do own a MLII SS/Laminate but to be honest its not what i prefer in a hunting rifle. It will be one of my "range kings" once i get it dialed in.
Both of them really like the Knight DISC based rifles and that is a part of the reason i bought my first one, the GMB54-120 which TB reviewed. It is everything he said and more IMO. It is my favorite hunting rifle by far.
I can at least talk to TB in a civil conversation but RW just gets on my nerves way too fast. RW did however post some good info on some Savage SML loads that are probably safer than some book loads.
I was shooting inlines long before I ever heard of either of these gents. I bought a Knight Disc when they were first offered and I allready had been hunting with both traditional and inline muzzleloaders for some time. So i do have quite a bit of my own opinions any ways
You are right when you say both have some good things to offer about loads and such. I just cant stand the obvious crusade like vendettas both seem to participate in. It turns me off. And to me taints whatever they say.
I much more enjoy reading what everyday guys on this forum experience and report.
By the way GM54-120---what is it abut your savage that makes you not prefer it as a hunting rifle?---The weight?
You are right when you say both have some good things to offer about loads and such. I just cant stand the obvious crusade like vendettas both seem to participate in. It turns me off. And to me taints whatever they say.
I much more enjoy reading what everyday guys on this forum experience and report.
By the way GM54-120---what is it abut your savage that makes you not prefer it as a hunting rifle?---The weight?
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Main reason...yes
I use my GMB54-120 because its great out to about 150 yards and very easy to carry all day. If i want to shoot a bit farther i have a modded 52cal LRH and a Elite 45.
I prefer the way they handle vs the Savage. If i hunted a different area (open plains) or larger/dangerous game my opinion might vary.
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:wink:
Last reply to Wakemans beef with CVA.
It's already mentioned that there was a problem with the '95/'96 rifles. 
There was a recall for those 2 years. :!: :!: I have been shooting my accura's heavy for the last 3 yrs and have tried many different loads and bullets. Have taken deer and hawgs with no problems. I will continue to shoot my CVA's and not be concerned with a problem that occured some 16 years ago. 8)
Food for thought.........Do you think BASS PRO SHOPS, CABELA'S, GANDER MTN, MIDWAY USA, just to mention a few, would sell these rifles knowing something is wrong with them? I don't think so when their is millions at stake :!: :!: :!:
Last reply to Wakemans beef with CVA.
It's already mentioned that there was a problem with the '95/'96 rifles. There was a recall for those 2 years. :!: :!: I have been shooting my accura's heavy for the last 3 yrs and have tried many different loads and bullets. Have taken deer and hawgs with no problems. I will continue to shoot my CVA's and not be concerned with a problem that occured some 16 years ago. 8) Food for thought.........Do you think BASS PRO SHOPS, CABELA'S, GANDER MTN, MIDWAY USA, just to mention a few, would sell these rifles knowing something is wrong with them? I don't think so when their is millions at stake :!: :!: :!:
