Got some issues

[ohihunter2014]

Shot my optima V2 today with 777 loose, cci mag primer and 250gr Barnes TZ. My first shot was a clean bore and at 3 o’clock. 2nd shot is at bottom of bull and 3rd shot hit at noon. I figure it needed swabbed so I used a wet TC patch and then 4-5 dry ones. Next shot was at 7 o’clock and the next 2 touched center bull.
2nd picture I swabbed the same way and they wouldn’t even touch the paper, shooting high off the target. It began to lower itself and shot the 2 shot group on the right. I then switched to Blackhorn 209 on a clean barrel and it shot the center bull. Why is 777 loose so erratic? All charges were by volume and seated the same depth. Scope seems tight too.

 

[deermanok]

Triple 7 will build up the dreaded crud ring especially with the hotter primers.
When I'm at the range, I pull my breech plug after 3 or 4 shots. I can scrub the crud ring away easier from the breech end.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Shooting T7, I highly suggest you use Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine for both swabbing and cleaning.
Don't use WET patches between rounds. Wet can cause poor groups. All you need when using Butch's, is a slightly damp patch. Run it in and out with short strokes one side, turn it over and in and out again.
When you clean the rifle, then you can use a wet patch.

 

[Slingingslugs]

What is your powder charge?
What is your sabot?
What is your loading tool?

 

[ohihunter2014]

Shooting T7, I highly suggest you use Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine for both swabbing and cleaning.
Don't use WET patches between rounds. Wet can cause poor groups. All you need when using Butch's, is a slightly damp patch. Run it in and out with short strokes one side, turn it over and in and out again.
When you clean the rifle, then you can use a wet patch.

I used the TC saturated patches. That maybe my issue. I did run dry patches after.

 

[ohihunter2014]

What is your powder charge?
What is your sabot?
What is your loading tool?

100gr
Barnes TZ blue
Factory ramrod

 

[ohihunter2014]

Triple 7 will build up the dreaded crud ring especially with the hotter primers.
When I'm at the range, I pull my breech plug after 3 or 4 shots. I can scrub the crud ring away easier from the breech end.

I noticed on the 3rd shot it got wild and scrubbing worked sometimes and sometimes it didn’t.

 

[mnoland30]

The reason folks like overpriced BH 209 is because you don't need to swab between shots. The combination of hot 209 primers and 777 powder makes a crud ring. My Kanke rifle uses a #11 cap, and I never knew what a crud ring was until I bought an Accura .45. I could not tell a difference in accuracy between 777 and BH 209.

The advantage of powder over pellets is that you can try 95 gr. and 105 gr. loads. Sometimes that is all it takes.

You might try a different bullet. Some bullets just shoot better than others. Harvester sells 300 gr. PT Scorpions that shoot very well in a couple of my rifles.

I hunt with a clean barrel, so I swab between every shot. Just lick the patch to dampen it. The first shot goes where all the others do. If you think you'll need a quick second shot (has never happened to me) you can play around with different sabots from Harvester and MMP. I have some that will go down easily in a fouled barrel.

Some folks believe that a light bullet and a strong primer allow the bullet to move down the barrel before the powder ignites. They make special 777 209 primers with reduced power to prevent that and help with the crud ring problem.

I bought some old Fed 410 primers that have reduced power, and they work well but come out black. I also have some ancient Remington Kleanbore primers that fit really well (no blowback and no black primers) but they are open on the powder side, which causes the primer to pop a bit. Winchester 209 primers fit really well in my Accura, but I haven't found any for a year or more. Search the forum for discussions on O-rings and washer shims to prevent blowback.

The Accura is capable of very good accuracy. At least a 2" group at 100 yards, and often much better.

 

[ohihunter2014]

The reason folks like overpriced BH 209 is because you don't need to swab between shots. The combination of hot 209 primers and 777 powder makes a crud ring. My Kanke rifle uses a #11 cap, and I never knew what a crud ring was until I bought an Accura .45. I could not tell a difference in accuracy between 777 and BH 209.

The advantage of powder over pellets is that you can try 95 gr. and 105 gr. loads. Sometimes that is all it takes.

You might try a different bullet. Some bullets just shoot better than others. Harvester sells 300 gr. PT Scorpions that shoot very well in a couple of my rifles.

I hunt with a clean barrel, so I swab between every shot. Just lick the patch to dampen it. The first shot goes where all the others do. If you think you'll need a quick second shot (has never happened to me) you can play around with different sabots from Harvester and MMP. I have some that will go down easily in a fouled barrel.

Some folks believe that a light bullet and a strong primer allow the bullet to move down the barrel before the powder ignites. They make special 777 209 primers with reduced power to prevent that and help with the crud ring problem.

I bought some old Fed 410 primers that have reduced power, and they work well but come out black. I also have some ancient Remington Kleanbore primers that fit really well (no blowback and no black primers) but they are open on the powder side, which causes the primer to pop a bit. Winchester 209 primers fit really well in my Accura, but I haven't found any for a year or more. Search the forum for discussions on O-rings and washer shims to prevent blowback.

The Accura is capable of very good accuracy. At least a 2" group at 100 yards, and often much better.

Not to argue, but since one min it groups with holes touching is it really a bullet issue? Kind of don't want to chase bullets around a week before ML season. I couldn't find any Win 777 primers so picked up normal Win 209 and CCI 209Mag. I will give the normal win a try and see if it helps. I've got 3 shots of BH209 left and because I got consistent shooting with it I will hunt with it next week but still want 777 to work.

 

[Nuallangus]

I swab between shots when using 777. I pull the breach plug, lick a patch and run it twice. Following up with a dry patch just to make sure it’s dry. 100 grains by volume, 240gr hornday xtp , green crushed rib sabot. Shoots sub moa at 100 yards, and sub 2” at 200 (CVA accura).

 

[bamawoodsman]

Try a different sabot. My wolf doesn’t like the blue ones that come with the tez. It likes the black Thompson center sabots over 71.1 grains (weighed) of fffg t7 with a cci mag primer swabbed between shots my impact likes the same load. They both will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards with that load all day.

 

[rangerod]

Are you possibly getting a lot of blow back? Check the primers. They should come out of the gun clean.

 

[rangerod]

I used the TC saturated patches. That maybe my issue. I did run dry patches after.

Those presoaked patches should be wrung out first before using. Messy. That's why I don't use them. The patch should have just a light spritz from a spray bottle before going down the bore.

 

[ohihunter2014]

Those presoaked patches should be wrung out first before using. Messy. That's why I don't use them. The patch should have just a light spritz from a spray bottle before going down the bore.

Yeah, they are pretty wet. I have only ever used pellets or BH209 and never had such issues so wasn't sure how the procedure should go for loose. I'll do the lick a patch next time.

 

[ohihunter2014]

Are you possibly getting a lot of blow back? Check the primers. They should come out of the gun clean.

I've always gotten blowback from this gun no matter the charge/bullet/primer. After about 4 shots I had to pry the primers out of the breech plug.

 

[ohihunter2014]

Oh, it just dawned on me that I am using the BH209 breech plug with the 777 loose. If that matters.

 

[ohihunter2014]

Try a different sabot. My wolf doesn’t like the blue ones that come with the tez. It likes the black Thompson center sabots over 71.1 grains (weighed) of fffg t7 with a cci mag primer swabbed between shots my impact likes the same load. They both will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards with that load all day.

I have Harvester black one both smooth and crush rib. I will give them a try. I wasn't going to hunt ML season which starts the 8th but looks like I am so its a scramble.

 

[phalanx]

I've used the 209 breech plug with 777, 209 and Pyrodex without any issues in my Optimas. I look at the 209 plug as a loose powder plug and the factory one as a pellet plug.

 

[rangerod]

You can put an o-ring in the primer pocket which will give you some compression to stop the blowback. Someone can chime in on ordering those if they would like. BlackHorn and 777 take the same breach plug. The amount of whatever liquid is used for swabbing should be proportional to the amount of crud ring. In my sidelocks with #11 caps the crud ring is quite light. On the other hand with my inlines there is quite a bit more crud ring using Winchester 777 primers.