Have modern Muzzleloaders become to modernized?

[michiganmuzzy]

You need to get around more humans. Not your selected bunch of friends.

That is the same sentiment i was trying to convey to you.

What does news feed have to do with people being self centered and thinking they have a right to do what they please?

It has everything to do with it. In this modern era your feed is custom tailored and edited to give you content you respond to most, without you even realizing it. Its not a conspiracy or anything like that, its just rampant capitalist technology. It’s the world we live in now. But thats off topic for this thread.

 

[user 30185]

You have made assumptions me thinks.

 

[GBG]

I think some one should build a smokeless roundball gun.

I've also wondered how a high speed (3000+ fps) round ball would perform. I have a 12 ga. 3.5" smokeless handload that drives heat treated .690 RBs just under 2000 fps. At close range their effects are impressive. I can only imagine what 3000-4000 fps would do at 25 yards.
High speed RBs' shed velocity so quick they are only "efficient" at 50 yards or less IMO. There's no reason to absorb 60+ ft-lbs of recoil for only a small increase in speed at 100 yards. Going to 3000 fps would more than double recoil. If I need more power from 50 to 100 yards, it's easier to just throw a bigger, heavier ball at lower speed. Again JMO.
ML "special seasons" are only a few days per year on public lands in this state. For a number of reasons, I hunt with both traditional and modern MLs' year-round. Each to their own

 

[rangerod]

If you wanna look at modernization and high tech look no further than the compound bow.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

The matchlock rifles evolved into flintlock rifles, which evolved into percussion cap rifles, etc.

But they all have one thing in common. They are all one-shot rifles, which load from the muzzle.

Eliminating the corrosive oxidizers in the propellants is a logical step in making a better muzzleloader.

Based on the MSD sheet, BH209 is 83% smokeless powder.

Maybe somebody will come up with a new type of cartridge for standard muzzleloading rifles, which will produce a safe pressure for the average factory rifle using non-corrosive propellants.


Now we need a company willing to mass produce the idea...

 

[xdmalder]

It's human nature to observe and remember immoral behavior over moral. I do believe there is more good in humans than evil. But the evil is what stands out

 

[MrTom]

That is the description of an echo chamber. What does news feed have to do with people being self centered and thinking they have a right to do what they please? Mr. Tom is playing both sides of the argument judging from his post ^^^.

Sorry bud but I have an open mind and can see both sides clearly. As for the news, it depends on its source.

 

[JIMYJAC]

It's getting a little hot in the kitchen lately. Seems we are recently having a bunch of threads that are a lot of opinions being tossed around and aren't really worth reading. This conversation is old.

 

[user 20307]

The reason for debate on this topic is simple: Wildlife officials do not know how to manage game when there are too many hunters for the game being offered. At least that is what I see in my state. I can see the whole thing becoming as in other countries, only the rich or major land owners will be allowed to hunt. Until then we will have to deal with weapons restrictions.

 

[user 30185]

Look back a few posts and you will see my accurate commentary about this debate....my dogs better then your dog.

 

[Wilyote1]

I don't begrudge anyone what they want to hunt with. Been around long enough to remember the hatred for bow hunters who hunted before gun season (before compounds). When compounds came in, it was the same thing all over again but the traditional bow hunters complained too. Then came crossbows and everyone complained because they got to use them during the rut. In all this mess, muzzleloaders evolved kinda under the radar. Then Billybob wacked a monster buck a week after "gun season" at 200 yds with his smokeless custom muzzleloader with a nightforce scope on it. Just like that the dyed in wool hunters who used shotguns, said enough. Soon after that, on opening morning of firearm season, 4 shoots rang out in quick succession, and some hunter sitting there with his muzzleloader said, "that sonaofbitch is using one of them AR things". Who knows what the next 20 years will bring. Just remember, all this in fighting leads to nothing good for our hunting tradition.

 

[.45er]

I don't begrudge anyone what they want to hunt with. Been around long enough to remember the hatred for bow hunters who hunted before gun season (before compounds). When compounds came in, it was the same thing all over again but the traditional bow hunters complained too. Then came crossbows and everyone complained because they got to use them during the rut. In all this mess, muzzleloaders evolved kinda under the radar. Then Billybob wacked a monster buck a week after "gun season" at 200 yds with his smokeless custom muzzleloader with a nightforce scope on it. Just like that the dyed in wool hunters who used shotguns, said enough. Soon after that, on opening morning of firearm season, 4 shoots rang out in quick succession, and some hunter sitting there with his muzzleloader said, "that sonaofbitch is using one of them AR things". Who knows what the next 20 years will bring. Just remember, all this in fighting leads to nothing good for our hunting tradition.

I've experienced that same progression as well over the decades. Having harvested deer from self-bow to centerfires I evolved a circular pattern to my choice of weapon. I start my season with the most challenging weapon first then progress to one that increrases the likelyhood of filling the freezer. The more challenging the hunt the more satisfying the harvest.
Age does however play a role in what one can and cannot hunt with due to physical limitations. Case in hand for me is the crossbow. Though only legal for the handicapped/disabled in my state, there could come a time when I qualify for such a Special Permit if I want to hunt during bow season.
Whether it's available time to hunt or the challenge to hunt which guides a hunter, I too respect hunters in whatever weapon they choose.

 

[SuperKirby]

I can't help but think that too many confuse nostalgia for ethics or morals. A positive experience or set of experiences leaves positive memories and feelings. Positive = good, good = right. People have memories, or flashes of a time when things were perfect and the world felt right...

That time I was back in the woods and I looked to my right and there was a buck standing there, broadside but about to turn. He caught my movement and paused. I watched him for what seemed like minutes but in reality was only seconds. I could smell the must coming off him as the breeze drifted over his rutted up body towards me. In the distance a squirrel chirped and he looked to his left. In the split second before he locked his gaze to me I pulled up my Hawken and got the front bead leveled square on his shoulder. As the rifle came to my shoulder my thumb snagged the hammer and cocked the rifle like it had thousands of times over years of practice. It was instinct now and I didn't realize I was doing it. I had bigger things to think about at this moment. I saw the buck start to tense in the shoulders and knew in a second he'd be gone. My finger squeezed the trigger, not noticing how cold it felt on this icy December morning. A fiery flash flew from the end of the barrel, an explosion followed by billowing clouds of white smoke. My eyes burned but it wouldn't have mattered as the clouds of sulfur smoke obscured my surroundings. It always seemed the smoke lingered a bit longer on mornings like this, as if it wanted to see the end of the hunt as much as I did. It didn't matter though. My aim was true just as I knew it would be. This was a shot I'd practiced too many times, in the fields practicing in the summer and other fall and winter hunts before. All similar shots leaving lasting impressions. As the smoke cleared and I began to reload. I still hadn't looked up to see where the buck and ran to. I didn't need to. Honestly I knew I didn't even need to reload, but again habit took over and I didn't want to interrupt it. I pushed the patched ball towards it's home on the grains of black, I knew in this moment it was just me and my fallen counterpart. His time in the woods came to an end today and it made me sad, for I knew that many seasons like this had passed and soon my last season would come as well. I kneeled next to this forest monarch, placed my hand on his still warm fur, and thanked him for his life, for this memory, and wished him well as his spirit bound into the woods.

How would dare any of you try to take that from me with your scopes and modern guns. Why that's barely even hunting at all! It doesn't seem right that anyone would want to hunt any differently. In fact, I don't know that I think it is. I think it's glorified target shooting. Shouldn't be allowed if you ask me.

...You get my point.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

There are bow hunters that do not like guns...

When I look at some of the modern bows they are using, I have to wonder if they are speaking hypocrisy?

 

[NMSharps]

Being the new guy here, but in no way new to Muzzleloaders mostly Rock Locks and Percussion Guns. I am roughly 3 1/2 years into the inlines. I live in Pennsylvania so we have multiple muzzleloader seasons. One of those is a Primitive Season, so yes Flintlock, Snaphaunce etc and we fight like the dickens to keep it. I hunt both the modern/first muzzleloader season and the primitive season. From my observation we don't have a lot of infighting. Have modern muzzleloaders gotten too modern NOPE. What has happened is people as a whole have lost respect for each other and their passions. Am I giving up my Rock Locks nope not a chance, or my percussion guns or my inlines. Where I do draw the line for Hunting at least are the Firesticks and Nitrofire, yes the bullet is loader from the muzzle but the charge is loaded from the breech, nogo from my perspective. Just my two cents.

 

[Rickt300]

I personally don't see modern firearms that much better for most of my deer hunting than a percussion muzzleloader. Virtually all of my shooting at deer is under 125 yards. I know how to maintain my muzzleloaders in the wet so reliability is not an issue. The inline has just made it easier to mount a scope, the shotgun primer just made some synthetic propellants easier to ignite. If anything all the new regulations and hunting seasons have just added to the clutter in the gun room.

 

[NMSharps]

I personally don't see modern firearms that much better for most of my deer hunting than a percussion muzzleloader. Virtually all of my shooting at deer is under 125 yards. I know how to maintain my muzzleloaders in the wet so reliability is not an issue. The inline has just made it easier to mount a scope, the shotgun primer just made some synthetic propellants easier to ignite. If anything all the new regulations and hunting seasons have just added to the clutter in the gun room.

Rick,

I agree 100%, I have not hunted with a modern gun in over 30 years. This includes small game and Waterfowl. For me just much more satisfaction than Cartridge Guns.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Where I do draw the line for Hunting at least are the Firesticks and Nitrofire, yes the bullet is loader from the muzzle but the charge is loaded from the breech, nogo from my perspective. Just my two cents.

I agree with you about the Nitrofire, because it is only half a muzzleloader.

The company mounted a tremendous marketing campaign in order to get many states to change their laws to make it legal. My state of North Carolina was one of those states who changed their definition of what is a "muzzleloader".

 

[Ninering62]

Rick,

I agree 100%, I have not hunted with a modern gun in over 30 years. This includes small game and Waterfowl. For me just much more satisfaction than Cartridge Guns.

Awesome.

 

[white eagle]

to each their own
if you like traditional ml use them
inlines use them
smokeless use them
no harm no foul
If my state were to implement a primitive only hunt that would be fine with me but the muzzleloader is still a 1 shot deal a whole bunch can be said for that aspect of the hunt