Home defense weapon and flashlight placement

[Half-Cocked]

Lately I have been thinking about a flashlight for my home defense weapon.

I looked at the many options available for picatiny rails and came to the conclusion that I would rather not have a flashlight on the firearm itself.

By placing the light on the firearm I am painting a big "shoot here" sign on me. When fully presented that light is inches from vitals.

So I came across a site that explains how to effectively use a separate flashlight with your firearm.

There are several "styles" my favorite is the Harries method. If you've seen somebody hold the light and a firearm in the movies you probably familiar with this style.

However this also puts the light pretty close to your center Mass. Tomorrow I'm going to try a different style at the range and I'm hoping people won't laugh at me.

I am going to extend my left hand further out to the right side of my body. The places the flash light away from the trunk of my body. My left arm still a perch for the dominant right hand on the pistol.

One big disadvantage of this whole thing is it I'll be shooting essentially one-handed. However both my hands are tied up. And the unrealistic event that I need a MAG change that could pose a problem.

 

[deermanok]

Maybe one of those headlamps.

 

[MrTom]

Tomorrow I'm going to try a different style at the range and I'm hoping people won't laugh at me.

I'm wishing it was yesterday yet and that tomorrow I could go to your range and watch this so I could enjoy a laugh. Personally I think you should focus less on home defense and a little more on being a little less paranoid.

 

[Half-Cocked]

I'm wishing it was yesterday yet and that tomorrow I could go to your range and watch this so I could enjoy a laugh. Personally I think you should focus less on home defense and a little more on being a little less paranoid.

No one can really prepare fully for an unknown situation. We can think about it without being paranoid. I think I make a good point about the light on a picatiny giving an assailant an advantage. Something people don't normally think about practically when dumping money on a. Picatiny light.

But hey thanks for your input and contribution I will look into that. Good input.

 

[rporter]

i used to do a lot of night shooting and accuracy tops all.

it is not easy to get comfortable shooting at night holding a light.

things are less complicated with an attached light and that leaves you to concentrate on the important things.

for you 2 lights may be the best answer. one on the weapon with a pressure switch and one to hold.

 

[gman57]

Ive got a sawed off 12 ga, dont need no stinkin lights .

 

[jcnull2305]

Get a Streamlight TLR-1s and mount it on a pic rail at the front of the weapon. The 's' model has a strobe function that disorients the person on the business end. When I worked 3rd shift, I actually made a burglary suspect vomit with the strobe. I'm running the TLR-1s on 3 pistols and 2 sub-guns. I'm running the rifle version - the 'LR' - model in two rifles. They cost, but they work and they take abuse.

I've been clearing buildings, teaching active shooter drills, and training new guys to employ weapon-mounted lights in building and area searches for 20+ years. I have employed weapon-mounted lights for at least that long in what the kids call "real-world" situations with real bad guys. They work.

The whole "shoot here" argument was applicable in the '70's, when flashlights were about as bright as a kerosene boat lantern, but today's lights are so bright, they shut down the aggressor's vision (especially in the dark) and are extremely disorienting. Add a strobe to that, and the effect is quite dramatic. The idea is not to walk around with the light on the whole time, which advertises your position. You activate in short bursts when entering rooms or clearing corners, etc. The light will interfere with your night vision a bit, but not so much as to render you blind. It will, however, blind the other guy.

I know there's military guys who will oppose the use of lights, but I'll remind them that, here, we have vastly different ROEs. We are not dealing with platoon or higher level threats, nobody has NOGs, and we HAVE to identify the threat before engaging, if for no other reason than to ensure you're not shooting a family member. Plus, it'll be asked in court if you were positive.

That's my 2¢.

 

[jcnull2305]

Oh, and we trained with the whole "separate-light-in-your-off-hand" method. Weapon handling is severely compromised, the light NEVER points in the same direction as your muzzle or eyes (in fact, most of the time, all three are pointing in different directions), and *when* you drop the light, you are then confronted with yet another obstacle to deal with - especially because the lights have a tendency to roll around like a lighthouse lamp, and illuminate the whole room, including you.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

2 12ga Mossbergs with extended magazine tubes. One recoil absorbing pistol grip, one bullpup. They each hold 12 rounds of Aguila short buckshot. Custom elevators that will reliably feed the short shells. Well lit with IProtec lights that have the strobe function. The short rounds in the bullpup allow the misses to shoot it easily
. No one in their right mind will stick around when they hear a shotgun racking.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

The IProtecs are less $ than the TLRs and, so far, have stood up to the recoil of a couple hundred rounds. The TLRs are my first choice when I can afford them. Have one on my AR.

 

[Half-Cocked]

Get a Streamlight TLR-1s and mount it on a pic rail at the front of the weapon. The 's' model has a strobe function that disorients the person on the business end. When I worked 3rd shift, I actually made a burglary suspect vomit with the strobe. I'm running the TLR-1s on 3 pistols and 2 sub-guns. I'm running the rifle version - the 'LR' - model in two rifles. They cost, but they work and they take abuse.

I've been clearing buildings, teaching active shooter drills, and training new guys to employ weapon-mounted lights in building and area searches for 20+ years. I have employed weapon-mounted lights for at least that long in what the kids call "real-world" situations with real bad guys. They work.

The whole "shoot here" argument was applicable in the '70's, when flashlights were about as bright as a kerosene boat lantern, but today's lights are so bright, they shut down the aggressor's vision (especially in the dark) and are extremely disorienting. Add a strobe to that, and the effect is quite dramatic. The idea is not to walk around with the light on the whole time, which advertises your position. You activate in short bursts when entering rooms or clearing corners, etc. The light will interfere with your night vision a bit, but not so much as to render you blind. It will, however, blind the other guy.

I know there's military guys who will oppose the use of lights, but I'll remind them that, here, we have vastly different ROEs. We are not dealing with platoon or higher level threats, nobody has NOGs, and we HAVE to identify the threat before engaging, if for no other reason than to ensure you're not shooting a family member. Plus, it'll be asked in court if you were positive.

That's my 2¢.

Oh, and we trained with the whole "separate-light-in-your-off-hand" method. Weapon handling is severely compromised, the light NEVER points in the same direction as your muzzle or eyes (in fact, most of the time, all three are pointing in different directions), and *when* you drop the light, you are then confronted with yet another obstacle to deal with - especially because the lights have a tendency to roll around like a lighthouse lamp, and illuminate the whole room, including you.

Wow excellent post. Thank you.

Made my decision easy after logically thinking about it. Juggling a separate light is not an option for me. As you have stated they rarely are pointed in the same direction. I find that it's just another thing I need to concentrate on pointing that light where I'm trying to shoot. It compromises my other hand and makes a MAG change nearly impossible without juggling multiple items. And like you said if you drop the light it just rolls around and illuminates everything.

The strobe function is definitely something that I was considering. Now I'm certain. That strobe light along with the tactic of being able to use it with a grip trigger is pretty bomb proof. In my mind absolutely the best way to go.

Excellent post!

 

[Half-Cocked]

2 12ga Mossbergs with extended magazine tubes. One recoil absorbing pistol grip, one bullpup. They each hold 12 rounds of Aguila short buckshot. Custom elevators that will reliably feed the short shells. Well lit with IProtec lights that have the strobe function. The short rounds in the bullpup allow the misses to shoot it easily
View attachment 10704. No one in their right mind will stick around when they hear a shotgun racking.

The IProtecs are less $ than the TLRs and, so far, have stood up to the recoil of a couple hundred rounds. The TLRs are my first choice when I can afford them. Have one on my AR.

Very nice rig! You know and that's a whole other argument that I had for self-defense. The shotgun approach is pretty hard to beat. The intimidating factor of the racking of the shotgun. the fact that you're dealing with buckshot rather than a single slug. Over penetration becomes less of an issue.

A lot of advantages there. Honestly handguns are cool and they're nice because they're small and easier to whip around in an emergency. But using them requires more brain power and skill. Where is a shotgun is almost intuitive point the tube pull the trigger.

Long time ago I played with the 410 shotgun. I would shoot it for my hip and I wouldn't aim. Shot did all the work and laid a nice pattern in the buckets and trees I shot at.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I absolutely love my bullpup for those reasons. Short length but a 20" barrel make for easy handling and accuracy and max velocity from the ammo. But the short shells mean higher capacity and slightly lower velocity. The short buckshot doesnt over penetrate. 1- 20 feet range you just shoot where the flashlight is shining and its a hit. My wife, who doesnt like handguns, can pick it up and feels comfortable shooting it. I was going to build it with a 20ga but the 12ga shortshells are everywhere now that Federal is making some too.

 

[jcnull2305]

Another couple points I want to make:

First, you must understand the laws that govern lethal force in your state, city, county, etc. Laws can vary vastly, and you must ensure that you're in compliance with all of them. You'll also have to assume that you're gonna get stuck with some make-a-point prosecutor in your case.

My brother, Renecorn Muzzleworth (yes, I'm still on that) - I understand the whole argument about racking a shell in the shotgun as a deterrent. My counter to that is that anyone in their "right" mind has a job and doesn't do home invasions. As a matter of fact, most home invasions are conducted by persons who are decidedly out of their minds. I have witnessed in the cases of other officers racking the gun, or been told by homeowners that when they racked the gun, the response was something on the order of, "F--- you!! You ain't gonna do S--t!!!"

The additional problem being that when you rack the gun, you are serving the aggressor with notice that you are armed, and they now have time to plan accordingly - most will run - however, a surprising number will quickly formulate an ambush. Better to keep surprise on your side.

The invader has a few possible advantages - the invader(s) has/have been awake and had time to adjust/manage their adrenalin dump- you were suddenly awakened, are possibly disoriented and the adrenalin dump is gonna cause you to be jumpy

The invader's vision will be more adjusted to the darkness - yours will not

You have the advantage of knowing the layout of your house.

You also have the possible advantage, as long as you don't expose it, of him/her not knowing what they are facing in terms of armament/preparedness. Couple that with a bright light to disorient them, along with an announcement that your are armed and won't mind killing them, i.e. "I'll splatter your brains all over this wall, and then go make a sandwich and wait for the cops..." Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

You also **have** to understand the psychological affects of killing a person - no matter how bad they might be. The adrenalin dump at the beginning of the confrontation is buck fever times about 10. I had nightmares, and trouble sleeping, short temper, trouble eating, on and on for months after. Add to that the stress of the legal proceedings, and it kinda sucks.

Finally, MrTom, with all due respect, and absolutely no condescension meant, I have body-bagged more than a few homeowners who probably focused less on home defense and more on being less paranoid. Being prepared brings its own peace of mind.

 

[Half-Cocked]

Another couple points I want to make:

First, you must understand the laws that govern lethal force in your state, city, county, etc. Laws can vary vastly, and you must ensure that you're in compliance with all of them. You'll also have to assume that you're gonna get stuck with some make-a-point prosecutor in your case.

My brother, Renecorn Muzzleworth (yes, I'm still on that) - I understand the whole argument about racking a shell in the shotgun as a deterrent. My counter to that is that anyone in their "right" mind has a job and doesn't do home invasions. As a matter of fact, most home invasions are conducted by persons who are decidedly out of their minds. I have witnessed in the cases of other officers racking the gun, or been told by homeowners that when they racked the gun, the response was something on the order of, "F--- you!! You ain't gonna do S--t!!!"

The additional problem being that when you rack the gun, you are serving the aggressor with notice that you are armed, and they now have time to plan accordingly - most will run - however, a surprising number will quickly formulate an ambush. Better to keep surprise on your side.

The invader has a few possible advantages - the invader(s) has/have been awake and had time to adjust/manage their adrenalin dump- you were suddenly awakened, are possibly disoriented and the adrenalin dump is gonna cause you to be jumpy

The invader's vision will be more adjusted to the darkness - yours will not

You have the advantage of knowing the layout of your house.

You also have the possible advantage, as long as you don't expose it, of him/her not knowing what they are facing in terms of armament/preparedness. Couple that with a bright light to disorient them, along with an announcement that your are armed and won't mind killing them, i.e. "I'll splatter your brains all over this wall, and then go make a sandwich and wait for the cops..." Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

You also **have** to understand the psychological affects of killing a person - no matter how bad they might be. The adrenalin dump at the beginning of the confrontation is buck fever times about 10. I had nightmares, and trouble sleeping, short temper, trouble eating, on and on for months after. Add to that the stress of the legal proceedings, and it kinda sucks.

Finally, MrTom, with all due respect, and absolutely no condescension meant, I have body-bagged more than a few homeowners who probably focused less on home defense and more on being less paranoid. Being prepared brings its own peace of mind.

Kudos excellent points being brought up here.

There is that ugliness of it all. Something we hope we never have to do in our lifetimes. The psychological aspect alone weighs heavy.

Having your whole life on hold while you're arrested and essentially proving your innocence. It's no laughing matter.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Jcnull, i. May **have** to change my name. Your point, i think, is that there is no winner in a gun fight. I cant agree more. I cant prepare for every possible situation or every intruders response. But I can prepare me and mine for "something". So the wife holding a shotgun with a strobe light is the best I can do currently. "Hope is not a plan" i once heard someone say. I hope neither of us has to shoot someone but I prepare physically (and legally) and try to prepare emotionally for the outcome. In all honesty i believe my wife will not pull the trigger if the time came. But thats gonna be her choice. Again, i hope it never comes to that.

 

[jcnull2305]

Muzzlemeyer: Your setups are awesome. I was only remarking about the deterrent effect of racking in a shell. More to the point is just be prepared for it not to have the desired effect. Most likely, it will work. The overwhelming majority of bad guys will hear that sound and GTFO.

Better yet, you could hang up a poster sized copy of your old profile pic - the Cheetos pic - in the window, and they'll probably run before ever trying to enter

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Cheesy Lives Matter

 

[jcnull2305]

Average Crack head's reaction upon seeing that:

 

[michiganmuzzy]

See that Half-cocked? There's more than one way to disable a bad guy.