Ignition Delay with new Knight Ultra-Light?

[LanceS4803]

Finally got to get the rifle to the range and experiencing something weird - an intermittent delay between primer and powder ignition.
The first 2 shots had a definite delay between primer pop and powder ignition. Not a hang fire, but about 1/4 second delay. 3rd and 4th shots were just fine, instant firing. But 5th shot, was a longer delay.
I didn't clean between shots to try and gauge how long the barrel would take to make loading hard. (The 5th load was as easy as the first.)

Shooting 90gr of BH209, Federal 209A primers in brand new Knight red jackets with Harvester bullets and black sabots. (Other than dialing down the powder by 20gr, this combo has been my go-to for years in other rifles.) New rifle, cleaned before using. Each load was prepped and loaded the same, with my usual 3 firm taps to the loading rod to ensure full load seating. The rod is index marked to ensure same depth.
Doing my googling, I saw where some don't recommend the magnum primers with the red jackets, as there is too much pressure. This is my first Knight, so don't know about that.

Any suggestions?

 

[Omidv]

Finally got to get the rifle to the range and experiencing something weird - an intermittent delay between primer and powder ignition.
The first 2 shots had a definite delay between primer pop and powder ignition. Not a hang fire, but about 1/4 second delay. 3rd and 4th shots were just fine, instant firing. But 5th shot, was a longer delay.
I didn't clean between shots to try and gauge how long the barrel would take to make loading hard. (The 5th load was as easy as the first.)

Shooting 90gr of BH209, Federal 209A primers in brand new Knight red jackets with Harvester bullets and black sabots. (Other than dialing down the powder by 20gr, this combo has been my go-to for years in other rifles.) New rifle, cleaned before using. Each load was prepped and loaded the same, with my usual 3 firm taps to the loading rod to ensure full load seating. The rod is index marked to ensure same depth.
Doing my googling, I saw where some don't recommend the magnum primers with the red jackets, as there is too much pressure. This is my first Knight, so don't know about that.

Any suggestions?

I had read that the red plastic jackets were not to be used with black horn. I would suggest either converting to bare primer or switch to 777 powder.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Did the primer leak in the red jacket? The 1st and only time I used the FPJ with BH209, blowback was terrible and hot stuff hit me in the face. The LeHigh 209 bare primer breech plug was ordered shortly after that. Maybe you have too much leakage and not enough of the primer is reaching the powder.

 

[ElDiablo]

And the plug flame channel is perfectly reamed/clean?

 

[rugerbh103]

I would think it is the red jacket. I shot them with T7. They never seemed to seal very well. I shoot an ultralight with bare primer breech plug and have never had an issue.

 

[LanceS4803]

Here is what the jackets and plug look like after 5 rounds. This is a brand new rifle.
Flame channel is still clear.

 

[sabotloader]

From your pictures, I would say that is not to abnormal when shooting with the FPJ primer system. Especially if you might be shooting Magnum primers, BH M-209; and a heavier projectile. It also appears the plug was factory type installation with some form of breech plug grease.

Magnum primers may also lead to delayed ignition. Caused by the amount of primer residue that the Mag primer will deposit in the flame channel of the breech plug

Red FPJ's are not known to be efficient back pressure sealers and can leak extremely well. The FPJ's are possibly a little more convenient than the bare primer system. I would note they normally do provide very good ignition.

 

[LanceS4803]

Update:
Heard back from Knight, "We build that setup around Winchester primers. You may want to try those and see if they are more consistent.'
I asked if it was still using BH209 in this rifle and he said Yes.
So great, sitting here with well over a brick of 209As. Now to find Winchesters?

Will BH209 reliably ignite with non-magnum primers? Especially using Knight jackets?
I really shouldn't have to be buying one of every style ignition system bolt head to find the one that works. Darned things are expensive!

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Buy the parts listed below and use up the 209As, money well spent and you should get clean primers and ALL the gas/heat will make it to the powder.

https://www.sskfirearms.com/breech-plug-body-bare-primer-knight-mountaineer-and-ultralight.htmlhttps://www.sskfirearms.com/bare-primer-adapter-knight-disc-elite-extreme.html

 

[sabotloader]

Update:
Heard back from Knight, "We build that setup around Winchester primers. You may want to try those and see if they are more consistent.'

[/QUOTE]
The FPJ will probably leak some no matter which primer you choose to shoot. Because of the design of the Knight BP the Mag primer is not always needed. But... I should also say to get a positive ignition of BH with a FPJ systems is and can be a toss up. especially in very cold weather.

You can shoot the Mag primer and BH consistently but you will need to perform some BP maintenance after 10 -12 shots. You will probably need to drill out the flame channel in the BP with a hand turned 5/32" drill bit. By fabricating something like this you can pull the bolt and hand drill the channel out.

When hunting you normally will not have to worry about this because you are not normally going to shoot that many bullets.

I asked if it was still using BH209 in this rifle and he said Yes.
So great, sitting here with well over a brick of 209As. Now to find Winchesters?

[/QUOTE]
You may want to keep your Mag primers and just practice cleaning out the channel while shooting an extended amount of shooting. No matter what Winchester or Fed your breech area is going to get dirty.

Will BH209 reliably ignite with non-magnum primers? Especially using Knight jackets?

[/QUOTE]
My personal opinion yes.... If the weather and powder are very cold.

I really shouldn't have to be buying one of every style ignition system bolt head to find the one that works. Darned things are expensive!

With the bolt you have now you could very easily convert it to a SSK bolt primer adapter and a SSK bare primer Knight breech plug with a removable vent liner. THEN a mag primer would not be needed at all. If you go this way make sure you order the correct BP, either for a DISC or Mountaineer/ULite.

Follow this link

https://www.sskfirearms.com/firearm-components/muzzleloader-components.html
Really hope some of this helps.

 

[LanceS4803]

SSK order placed. Thanks all.
Other than it not being reliable, it is a great rifle! Just a little disappointed in my home state companies product.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

SSK order placed. Thanks all.
Other than it not being reliable, it is a great rifle! Just a little disappointed in my home state companies product.

Short of the LRH and the 500 its probably their best rifle, imho.

 

[jsteurrys]

You made the right decision to get rid of the red FPJs. Your rifle will be a lot cleaner in the breech area.

 

[sabotloader]

SSK order placed. Thanks all.
Other than it not being reliable, it is a great rifle! Just a little disappointed in my home state companies product.

Right now other than te fed primers you have the only readily available primer is the Cheddite Primer, And it works really well. You will not need the ted 209A at all. But to get a clean breach you will need to shim the primer pocket to get a slight crush on the primer when you close the bolt. But that is another story..

 

[rugerbh103]

SSK order placed. Thanks all.
Other than it not being reliable, it is a great rifle! Just a little disappointed in my home state companies product.

I think you'll be happy with the bare primer setup. I have the red jackets in afew old plunger guns, but generally avoid it when I can.

 

[Horniac]

I think you'll be happy with the bare primer setup. I have the red jackets in afew old plunger guns, but generally avoid it when I can.

I bought the exact same gun but with the bare primer and had the exact same ignition issues as you.

I replaced the Knight breechplug with the SSK breechplug as recommended which solved the ignition problems but did not cure the blow black.

The blowback would make the primer stick in the bolt face and I would often have to use a block of wood to beat the bolt open. Then I would have to use a little pick or something to remove the spent primers. Not ideal if a follow-up shot was required.

Instead of utilizing metal shim washers i
bought the rubber o-rings from McMasters as also recommended and just put in a new one after every shooting session.

That solved the blowback problem and often times my spent primers will now fall out by just tipping the gun.

Before and after photos of my Remington SST primers…

Horniac

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

There is a good chance that there will be no blowback with the new adapter and the new breech plug. My 2 Elites which used the red plastic jacket systems, were replaced with the adapter and the breech plug. Both have perfect crush on the primer and no blowback.

The one Mountaineer I had came with Knights bare primer setup, I got the SSK breech plug and had blow back. It seems that the Extreme bolt body, paired with the adapter and breech plug, makes for a better system than using Knight's bare primer bolt with a new breech plug.

 

[LanceS4803]

I am really looking forward to swapping out the OEM parts and heading to the range.
I have used the rubber o-ring spacers in my older Vortek. (And I had the full drill bit setup for cleaning channel and hole for that one.) A misfire almost caused me a failed elk hunt, but a second primer ignited the charge. Used the rings after that, with no issues.

I would think that a rifle, fresh from the factory should work as delivered. But there is nothing online or in the owner's manual about using Winchester primers as the recommended load.
I wonder what they use powder/primer for their R&D work ups?

 

[sabotloader]

Lance try not to use anything out than soaking and a blast of air through the actual flash hole. Every time you push something metal through the flas hole you speed up the erosion of the hole.

 

[LanceS4803]

Lance try not to use anything out than soaking and a blast of air through the actual flash hole. Every time you push something metal through the flas hole you speed up the erosion of the hole.

Thanks for the reminder, will do on this new setup.
On the Vortek it would really get crudded up in the channel, not much at all in the flash hole. I bought a special bit set made just for the plug, so a light touch would cut the crud in the channel with no damage.