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AlaskaStillwaterBows said:
I was mainly wondering what states allowed smokeless powders to hunt with during a muzzleloader hunt that's all vs looking at all 50 states regs. I had never heard of a smokeless muzzleloader until seeing them on this forum. I agree with you about the horrible laws. Kind of like archery season has now become crossbow hunting season.
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Its listed right near the top of this section.
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/...allow-smokeless-during-deer-ml-seasons.35924/
 
AlaskaStillwaterBows said:
I was mainly wondering what states allowed smokeless powders to hunt with during a muzzleloader hunt that's all vs looking at all 50 states regs. I had never heard of a smokeless muzzleloader until seeing them on this forum. I agree with you about the horrible laws. Kind of like archery season has now become crossbow hunting season.
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Right on brotha, I gotcha & I'm right with ya too. Its a dang shame some states have regs on powder type we use in our ML's. BUt for guys like me that can't have 4473 guns it doesn't matter at all. It still affords us to hunt with BP-BH209 in " ML season " & hunt with modern CF rifle capabilities in a ML during reg gun season. I'll never understand why we allow our " elected officials " to make these ridiculous laws about things they know nothing about, then we let those unconstitutionally founded laws remain to exist & we allow those ppl that made them remain in their positions. It's beyond me, zero logic behind any of that. I'm glad you touched on the subject. I think we need to change the way we think & treat those we allow to " not rule ", but govern over us.
 
Email, call, text your local and state reps and your state DNR, or whatever you have, til they get sick of hearing from you. I cant hunt with smokeless(for now). But ikeep pestering my guys, D or R, they gotta know its an issue if they want this (small) block of votes.
 
michiganmuzzy said:
Email, call, text your local and state reps and your state DNR, or whatever you have, til they get sick of hearing from you. I cant hunt with smokeless(for now). But ikeep pestering my guys, D or R, they gotta know its an issue if they want this (small) block of votes.
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Would be nice to convince the Natural Resources Commission here. As for the DNR, don't waste any time.
 
So i just put a new trigger on this gun. A timney 501T. Wow thats super light trigger at 4oz. Ive got a light trigger on my renegade thx to IdahoLewis but this is something else. This is only going to be a benchrest shooter. Im planning to get it to the range sunday while most of you are watching that foosball game.
16125715322628540186649808925146.jpg
Im planning to start out with 70gr by weight bh209 to sight in at 50 then 100yd. Then maybe work up to 80-84grW and see if i can get out to 300 by the end of the day. After that i will start looking at some other powders to try.
 
AlaskaStillwaterBows said:
I was mainly wondering what states allowed smokeless powders to hunt with during a muzzleloader hunt that's all vs looking at all 50 states regs. I had never heard of a smokeless muzzleloader until seeing them on this forum. I agree with you about the horrible laws. Kind of like archery season has now become crossbow hunting season.
Click to expand...
Illinois allows smokeless powder during the muzzleloader and allows you to use it during regular firearm season. Smokeless powder is the best example of substitute powder for blackpowder propellant. It is what replaced it in the 19th century. Only to be used in firearms designed for it though. Indiana has made the changes in its law to state that the projectile must be loaded from the muzzle to be a muzzleloader allowing the use of Federals Firestick component. I can imagine other States will soon be following.
 
peteo said:
Illinois allows smokeless powder during the muzzleloader and allows you to use it during regular firearm season. Smokeless powder is the best example of substitute powder for blackpowder propellant. It is what replaced it in the 19th century. Only to be used in firearms designed for it though. Indiana has made the changes in its law to state that the projectile must be loaded from the muzzle to be a muzzleloader allowing the use of Federals Firestick component. I can imagine other States will soon be following.
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I build High Velocity (2900-3000 fps) muzzleloaders that use smokeless powder.
However...

I could load a 458 Win Mag cartridge with powder, and then glue a piece of cardboard over the end.
I could put a small pin into the inside edge of the barrel, just in front of the chamber of my 458 Win Mag rifle.
I could then load a 45 caliber bullet through the muzzle.
I could chamber the cartridge in my rifle.
I could then call it the "MagStick" muzzleloader.

Is this where we are headed as the definition of a "muzzleloader"?
 
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HV-Muzzleloaders. It appears that Traditions firearms and Federal are doing some high powered $$$ lobbying to get the definitions of muzzleloader changed in the rules. The Traditions nitro has a shoulder that the projectile seats on. I agree that this will make a very fine line on breech charged front loaded firearm and breech loaded cartidge. The example that you use would be very similar to Firestick and qualify as a muzzleloader in Indiana as the projectile would still be loaded from the muzzle. I cany only assume there would have to be a modification to the barrel such as a bullet seating shoulder or stop to prevent loading a complete .458 cartridge which would not be allowed as being incapable of being loaded from the breech is our current law. The benefits would be the ease of unloading as simplified as removing the powder and primer component when done hunting without having to fire, blow out or remove breech plug and empty.

Start your developement and lets see what you can do.
 
peteo said:
HV-Muzzleloaders. It appears that Traditions firearms and Federal are doing some high powered $$$ lobbying to get the definitions of muzzleloader changed in the rules. The Traditions nitro has a shoulder that the projectile seats on. I agree that this will make a very fine line on breech charged front loaded firearm and breech loaded cartidge. The example that you use would be very similar to Firestick and qualify as a muzzleloader in Indiana as the projectile would still be loaded from the muzzle. I cany only assume there would have to be a modification to the barrel such as a bullet seating shoulder or stop to prevent loading a complete .458 cartridge which would not be allowed as being incapable of being loaded from the breech is our current law. The benefits would be the ease of unloading as simplified as removing the powder and primer component when done hunting without having to fire, blow out or remove breech plug and empty.

Start your developement and lets see what you can do.
Click to expand...

Words have meaning.

When soldiers were given the command to "load" during the Revolutionary War, they were expected to put propellant into the muzzle of the weapon and then put a projectile into the weapon through the muzzle.

If a "load" consists of a bullet, and propellant, then the NitroFire is not a "muzzleloader". It is a half muzzleloader, and a half breechloader.

It appears that Traditions is lobbying to change the meaning of words, in order to sell their product. I do not believe this is a good thing.
 
michiganmuzzy said:
Has anyone used imr 7828? I can get some but i dont yet know if its viable
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Take a look at the following burn rate chart.
That powder is normally used with Magnum caliber centerfire rifles.
It is much slower than IMR4198.

Hodgdon Powder Relative Burn Rate Chart published by Hodgdon Powder Company (lasc.us)

If you are smooth-sizing the bullet, you are probably going to need a faster powder.
There is going to be some leakage of hot gases through the grooves before the base of the bullet has a chance to swell up any.
This means you need a faster powder than with a full bore diameter bullet.

.
 
Im using a swinglock adjustable sizer, (fullform?) Ive been looking at that chart and load data for a few different straight wall cartridges. I can get some of the 7828 at a very good price and can use it for some other reloading. Just thought it may work in this gun.
 
7828 too slow without a powder chamber and heavy bullets and 30+" barrel. People are shooting 4895 and 8208 benchmark and varget with 300gr. min. bullet weight. It is hard to beat 4198 for 300gr and less bullets. 4227 does good but makes pressure faster.
 
What load data would you use as a base for a 400gr 44cal bullet?....Im not aware of any as a starting point.
 

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