Knight ultra lite 45 and Maximus 240

[GM54-120]

I would love to see Harvester or MMP make a greatly improved sabot. If you have ever looked at the base of the Harvester 54x45 sabot or even a Knight 52cal sabot you will see the first step IMO to make a really tough sabot. The powder cup in the base of that 54cal Harvester sabot is brutally thick. Max load of BH209 and a 300gr bullet hardly phase either of them.

Next is longer petals. IMO the polymer is fine in the Harvester. Guys have been shooting that sabot with a 200gr bullet well over 2600fps for ages with loads making over 30kpsi. You wont ever make 32kpsi with BH209 and a 45cal sabot load so it aint the peak pressure that is killing the Harvester sabot. Its most likely the bullet since the Lehigh and Barnes have done it also.

Guys have managed to shoot the 250gr cup and core bullets faster without blowing the sabot? So it aint the sabot per say. Its the combination of a long/heavy/hard monolithic bullet in that sabot. You need to grab the bearing surface better with the petals and beef up the base a little too.

The transition on the base of the bullet from bottom to side has to be perfect. Too rounded it blows sabots, too sharp it blows sabots. We learned this when Barnes sent out a bad batch of 195s and all of a sudden known good loads were shredding sabots.

Something like this might help the CEB 40cals grab the sabot petals better too.

 

[dwm]

Hopefully they do something, the bullet works, just can’t load heavy, but I killed lots of deer with others, wondering how the elr works in the ultra lite. I have used power belts many years ago . I remember having to chase deer that were hit pretty darn good.anyone shoot 200 sst out of fast twist?

 

[Sideshow]

I would love to see Harvester or MMP make a greatly improved sabot. If you have ever looked at the base of the Harvester 54x45 sabot or even a Knight 52cal sabot you will see the first step IMO to make a really tough sabot. The powder cup in the base of that 54cal Harvester sabot is brutally thick. Max load of BH209 and a 300gr bullet hardly phase either of them.

Next is longer petals. IMO the polymer is fine in the Harvester. Guys have been shooting that sabot with a 200gr bullet well over 2600fps for ages with loads making over 30kpsi. You wont ever make 32kpsi with BH209 and a 45cal sabot load so it aint the peak pressure that is killing the Harvester sabot. Its most likely the bullet since the Lehigh and Barnes have done it also.

Guys have managed to shoot the 250gr cup and core bullets faster without blowing the sabot? So it aint the sabot per say. Its the combination of a long/heavy/hard monolithic bullet in that sabot. You need to grab the bearing surface better with the petals and beef up the base a little too.

The transition on the base of the bullet from bottom to side has to be perfect. Too rounded it blows sabots, too sharp it blows sabots. We learned this when Barnes sent out a bad batch of 195s and all of a sudden known good loads were shredding sabots.

Something like this might help the CEB 40cals grab the sabot petals better too.

Some 45 sub bases are needed too from id guess mmp since it was Del's idea . The molds are expensive is the problem . Hate to say it but Toby has something there but id rather have a sub base .

 

[mgwett]

The article I read originally which I believe some of you have seen as well was written by Toby Bridges and was the reason I tried the 240 Maximus in the first place. He was shooting 120 grains of blackhorn and getting 2179fps and 130 grains of blackhorn getting 2211fps according to the article. The article said the sabots held up well even with 130 grains of blackhorn and there was nothing mentioned of any sabot failure. He was shooting in below freezing temps compared to the 80 degree day I had my issues. I don’t know if the temperature played a role in sabot failure or not. Cooler barrel and the plastic would be stiff in the colder temps.
I never tried a poly wad used in conjunction with the sabot but have my doubts on that working. Silicon in the sabot base is an interesting idea. I wanted to avoid any chance of sabot failure so I dropped the charge down.
DWM - my gun performed at 200 and that’s about the distance I shot my buck at. I spoke with a guy at knight who told me he shot 90 grains by volume of blackhorn with this bullet and had shot an elk at good distance. Don’t remember exact yardage but believe he said 300 yards or so. He said he had great accuracy at distance with his gun and that load.

 

[GM54-120]

A 200gr SST shoots fine fast in a 1-22. They just get fragile at warp speed. Boiler room probably wont be an issue but exit holes may not happen either. Ive shot them around 2600fps or more in a 1-22 with the Harvester sabot. The sabot held up fine but i was using a powder known to be somewhat easy on sabots.

 

[Sideshow]

A 200gr SST shoots fine fast in a 1-22. They just get fragile at warp speed. Boiler room probably wont be an issue but exit holes may not happen either. Ive shot them around 2600fps or more in a 1-22 with the Harvester sabot. The sabot held up fine but i was using a powder known to be somewhat easy on sabots.

How does the Fury's do ???

 

[GM54-120]

Some 45 sub bases are needed too from id guess mmp since it was Del's idea . The molds are expensive is the problem . Hate to say it but Toby has something there but id rather have a sub base .

I have to disagree with sub bases. Guys are shooting Fury 40cal 250gr cup and cores upto around 2400-2500fps. Ive shot a Barnes around 2800fps. Both those loads make way more peak than 140gr of BH209 will ever make with a 250gr bullet. The bullet is tearing up the sabot from the inside out. The sub base wont prevent that.

 

[Sideshow]

I have to disagree with sub bases. Guys are shooting Fury 40cal 250gr cup and cores upto around 2400-2500fps. Ive shot a Barnes around 2800fps. Both those loads make way more peak than 140gr of BH209 will ever make with a 250gr bullet. The bullet is tearing up the sabot from the inside out. The sub base wont prevent that.

They are punch cutting them ?? Hummm . A washer in first maybe ??? Or just chuck em in a hand drill and copy the sst base with sandpaper and a file .?? Theres got to be a way....
Has a wool wad been tried as a heat barrier ??? Does the 40 x 50 sabot punch through ?? The 50 seems to get most all the tech for a smoker .

 

[dwm]

The article I read originally which I believe some of you have seen as well was written by Toby Bridges and was the reason I tried the 240 Maximus in the first place. He was shooting 120 grains of blackhorn and getting 2179fps and 130 grains of blackhorn getting 2211fps according to the article. The article said the sabots held up well even with 130 grains of blackhorn and there was nothing mentioned of any sabot failure. He was shooting in below freezing temps compared to the 80 degree day I had my issues. I don’t know if the temperature played a role in sabot failure or not. Cooler barrel and the plastic would be stiff in the colder temps.
I never tried a poly wad used in conjunction with the sabot but have my doubts on that working. Silicon in the sabot base is an interesting idea. I wanted to avoid any chance of sabot failure so I dropped the charge down.
DWM - my gun performed at 200 and that’s about the distance I shot my buck at. I spoke with a guy at knight who told me he shot 90 grains by volume of blackhorn with this bullet and had shot an elk at good distance. Don’t remember exact yardage but believe he said 300 yards or so. He said he had great accuracy at distance with his gun and that load.

It’s in there,just read it , he was blowing up sabots with 130

 

[GM54-120]

Yeah, its sorta like a center punch cut to the sabot aka as drilling a sabot. Its more common in hot 50x40 loads. Adding the sub base showed minor improvements for some people but speed still had problems matching a 50x45. Savage MLII owners fought this battle for ages looking for the holy grail and never got the 40s to shoot until going to a 45cal barrel.

Im betting Harvester will step up to the plate once 45s begin to be more common again. Del might also but his last 45x40 "prototype" needed more work to the mold than he wanted to invest in. That was before the newest rifles and the new bullets you can get. Most of us have grown tired of waiting. Sabotless works and will keep working if you dont mind the added recoil from the heavier bullets.

The real game changer will be when someone offers a 45x40 that will handle a 275gr-300gr 40cal at 2100fps or more. You can already get the bullets.

 

[Sideshow]

Yeah, its sorta like a center punch cut to the sabot aka as drilling a sabot. Its more common in hot 50x40 loads. Adding the sub base showed minor improvements for some people but speed still had problems matching a 50x45. Savage MLII owners fought this battle for ages looking for the holy grail and never got the 40s to shoot until going to a 45cal barrel.

Im betting Harvester will step up to the plate once 45s begin to be more common again. Del might also but his last 45x40 "prototype" needed more work to the mold than he wanted to invest in. That was before the newest rifles and the new bullets you can get. Most of us have grown tired of waiting. Sabotless works and will keep working if you dont mind the added recoil from the heavier bullets.

The real game changer will be when someone offers a 45x40 that will handle a 300gr 40cal at 2100fps or more. You can already get the bullets.

My gosh thats purdy !!! I hope Harvester does design a longer tougher sabot !!! That would be the cement the 45 needs to stay around and make them commonplace too .

 

[Sideshow]

Yeah, its sorta like a center punch cut to the sabot aka as drilling a sabot. Its more common in hot 50x40 loads. Adding the sub base showed minor improvements for some people but speed still had problems matching a 50x45. Savage MLII owners fought this battle for ages looking for the holy grail and never got the 40s to shoot until going to a 45cal barrel.

Im betting Harvester will step up to the plate once 45s begin to be more common again. Del might also but his last 45x40 "prototype" needed more work to the mold than he wanted to invest in. That was before the newest rifles and the new bullets you can get. Most of us have grown tired of waiting. Sabotless works and will keep working if you dont mind the added recoil from the heavier bullets.

The real game changer will be when someone offers a 45x40 that will handle a 275gr-300gr 40cal at 2100fps or more. You can already get the bullets.

Id guess thats the "round out the collection model" . Nice !!!

 

[mgwett]

It’s in there,just read it , he was blowing up sabots with 130

I found the original article I read and did not see anything in that article. This is quoted from the article I read...
‘I went right to a 120-grain Blackhorn 209 charge ... and the sabots held up beautifully. The sabots shown above right pretty much represent how all of the recovered sabots have looked - whether propelled by 120- or 130-grain charges of Blackhorn 209.’

I’m guessing he must have written another article on these loads since. I’ll have to do a search for additional info from him.

 

[dwm]

I found the original article I read and did not see anything in that article. This is quoted from the article I read...
‘I went right to a 120-grain Blackhorn 209 charge ... and the sabots held up beautifully. The sabots shown above right pretty much represent how all of the recovered sabots have looked - whether propelled by 120- or 130-grain charges of Blackhorn 209.’

I’m guessing he must have written another article on these loads since. I’ll have to do a search for additional info from him.

Look under August 2019 about checking out the 45 cooper 22ml and scroll down, you will see where he says he key holed the first 3 shots. The Cooper is a 1. In 20 twist also

 

[mgwett]

Look under August 2019 about checking out the 45 cooper 22ml and scroll down, you will see where he says he key holed the first 3 shots. The Cooper is a 1. In 20 twist also

I’ll have to find and read that article. Interesting how it worked flawlessly in one gun and key holed in the other with both having the same twist rate. It would be nice if someone made a more durable sabot option.

 

[dwm]

I’ll have to find and read that article. Interesting how it worked flawlessly in one gun and key holed in the other with both having the same twist rate. It would be nice if someone made a more durable sabot option.

I watched a YouTube video with Justin from knight, he was shooting a mountaineer fast twist, 90 grains with the Maximus, and Barry brightbill said that’s the bullet he hunts with. Guess 90 gets it done.

 

[Sideshow]

I watched a YouTube video with Justin from knight, he was shooting a mountaineer fast twist, 90 grains with the Maximus, and Barry brightbill said that’s the bullet he hunts with. Guess 90 gets it done.

Well if it shoots and gets it done maybe theres no need to re--invent the wheel . I just like a bit more velocity IF I CAN have it like you tried . Youll save some powder lol !!! I would imagine when you can theres gonna be all sorts of combinations tried . I like that too . Thanks for keeping us filled in both now and in the months to come !!!!

 

[dwm]

Well if it shoots and gets it done maybe theres no need to re--invent the wheel . I just like a bit more velocity IF I CAN have it like you tried . Youll save some powder lol !!! I would imagine when you can theres gonna be all sorts of combinations tried . I like that too . Thanks for keeping us filled in both now and in the months to come !!!!

No problem, I like this forum for all the knowledge I have gained

 

[titanium]

I’ve been shooting the 240 maximus about 3 years now, a knight disc extreme .45 1/30 twist and a rem/pac .45 1/22 twist. Harvester sb and cr. Out of a few maximus shy of 200 shot i’ve yet too blow a sabot. The rem/pac is 2630’s FPS,not sure on the knight. They both group great, the rem a little better. With the knight one hole 3 shot groups common at 100 yds. In the knight Blackhorn 209 90 grains/W, yes a stout load, save in my gun may not be in yours. Ok, first step in bullet prep.
Heat to cherry red with propane torch, drop in cold water or vinegar.
I let soak in the vinegar 20-30 mins,helps clean the scale off. Then knurl up between the bands to .402 -3. I tried knurling the full bearing but they shot better with 5/16” wide knurling. Last step - l run them,sabot and bullet threw my pacnor 458 full form die set at 3.5 to max at 4. Bullet and sabot being fed threw bullet point down so need hollow push rod - 3/8 brass tube, pipe - cut off 06 case solder. On the first pass i push on base of sabot with wood dowel as fed into die to keep both tight together 3 passes total. Also indexed 2 lands a pedal.when done bullet and sabot are locked together.

 

[Sideshow]

I’ve been shooting the 240 maximus about 3 years now, a knight disc extreme .45 1/30 twist and a rem/pac .45 1/22 twist. Harvester sb and cr. Out of a few maximus shy of 200 shot i’ve yet too blow a sabot. The rem/pac is 2630’s FPS,not sure on the knight. They both group great, the rem a little better. With the knight one hole 3 shot groups common at 100 yds. In the knight Blackhorn 209 90 grains/W, yes a stout load, save in my gun may not be in yours. Ok, first step in bullet prep.
Heat to cherry red with propane torch, drop in cold water or vinegar.
I let soak in the vinegar 20-30 mins,helps clean the scale off. Then knurl up between the bands to .402 -3. I tried knurling the full bearing but they shot better with 5/16” wide knurling. Last step - l run them,sabot and bullet threw my pacnor 458 full form die set at 3.5 to max at 4. Bullet and sabot being fed threw bullet point down so need hollow push rod - 3/8 brass tube, pipe - cut off 06 case solder. On the first pass i push on base of sabot with wood dowel as fed into die to keep both tight together 3 passes total. Also indexed 2 lands a pedal.when done bullet and sabot are locked together.

That is awesome !!!!!!!!!! Thank you !!!!!!!! Incredibilly innovative !!!!! THAT is a gold nugget !!!!