Looking to buy first muzzleloader

[GM54-120]

Congrats!!!

The Elite 50 is considered by many to be one of the best of all time. The Lehigh breach plug made it even better and extremely reliable with all loose powders.

Try the previous owners recommended load for now and make sure you use Teflon tape or anti seize on the breach plug and anti seize on the vent liner in the breach plug. Its the little dome shaped screw on the powder side of the plug.

T7 powder can make the plug and liner hard to remove if you don't. You could try the same load data but switch to the same amount of BlackHorn209 powder if you want to experiment a little.

 

[03mossy]

Welcome to the club Ditka! Your gonna love it!

 

[sabotloader]

You got a great deal! Search this forum for bullet and powder info and ask any questions you might have. shoot me a PM if you need any help.

Thanks, the seller has been great to work with and very patient with my questions. He states the gun likes 100gr. of T7 3F with a 300 gr .44 cal bullet Hornady XTP bullet, MMP green sabots, and Winchester Triple Seven Primers. What has your experience been with what these guns like?

Ditka, there is not doubt in my mind you got a good rifle and I would add the load recommendation that you were give will shoot very well in that gun.... actually it will shoot just about anything really well.

I myself have several of these things called a Knight and enjoy everyone of them...

I was at the farm yesterday shooting one of the new Mountaineers... you might look that this thread... And I will stand here and tell your Extreme can do most everything the Mountaineer does.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... hp?t=22371

If you have time to look at that thread you will see I go a different direction with the 50 cal. I really do prefer to shoot bullets that are closer to bore size and reduce the thickness of the sabot that you use.

I do not think I would recommend this particular bullet to you as it really is for larger big game like elk-moose-bear, anyway in my opiion. I am going to use it this to harvest one deer just for testing purposes. If it works on a deer as expect it to - then it will become my go to bullet for elk here in Idaho.

Not really knowing what you will be hunting or where it would be unfair for me to say use this or that bullet and on top of that there are what I call premium bullets and production bullets. You can see or will see that I use what I label as premium bullets - they are not cheap but they do work a little better and more importantly to faster than others.

One bullet that I might suggest as the best all-around bullet that I have found is the Bloodline .458-275 grain bullet

This is the information sheet on the Bloodline bullets..

This is a picture of its' twin - it is a 300 grain in a MMP Orange .458-50cal sabot. The 275 grain bullet looks just like it.

Here is a typical target with some velocities...

The next I might ask is what ignition system does the gun have? Does it use a FPJ (full plastic red jacket) or a NFPJ (non full plastic jacket or bare primer). Both ignition systems work very well but the new Knight NFPJ system is much cleaner.

Also do not get me wrong but just about anything that anyone else has suggested will work also. I just prefer to shoot the .452 or .458 bullet from a 50 cal ml...

If can answer or help with anything else please let me know....

mike

 

[Smyrnagc]

He has the Lehigh conversion kit so NFPJ I would assume

 

[sabotloader]

He has the Lehigh conversion kit so NFPJ I would assume

Probably would be a NFPJ..

 

[Ditka]

I will be using this ml to hunt whitetail.

 

[Widude]

That's a great M-L you bought. Make sure you know how to take it apart & give it a good cleaning before you shoot it, the bolt & all. I'd consider moving over to Blackhorn 209 powder, with a hot primer. Just enough time to get it all set for the IL deer opener.

I mostly use Hornady 250 grn SST bullets, though plenty of other good choices.

 

[Ditka]

That's a great M-L you bought. Make sure you know how to take it apart & give it a good cleaning before you shoot it, the bolt & all. I'd consider moving over to Blackhorn 209 powder, with a hot primer. Just enough time to get it all set for the IL deer opener.

I mostly use Hornady 250 grn SST bullets, though plenty of other good choices.

Thanks for the advice. It seems like guys on this forum really like Knights. However, I have had conversations with a few different acquaintances that have told me that I am making a mistake buying this gun instead of the CVA Optima. When I asked why they all said that Knights are overrated and that CVA uses a much better barrel and the breach plug can be removed without any tools. This is still all Greek to me and am now questioning my purchase. Can anyone add any helpful insight as to whether or not I made the right purchase?

 

[Smyrnagc]

That's a great M-L you bought. Make sure you know how to take it apart & give it a good cleaning before you shoot it, the bolt & all. I'd consider moving over to Blackhorn 209 powder, with a hot primer. Just enough time to get it all set for the IL deer opener.

I mostly use Hornady 250 grn SST bullets, though plenty of other good choices.

Thanks for the advice. It seems like guys on this forum really like Knights. However, I have had conversations with a few different acquaintances that have told me that I am making a mistake buying this gun instead of the CVA Optima. When I asked why they all said that Knights are overrated and that CVA uses a much better barrel and the breach plug can be removed without any tools. This is still all Greek to me and am now questioning my purchase. Can anyone add any helpful insight as to whether or not I made the right purchase?

You made a great purchase. The Knight Elite is one of the most accurate muzzleloaders made. But I am biased...I started with a Knight Wolverine, went to a Black Knight and now shoot DISC Extremes. I bought a CVA 45 caliber one season and sold it. It didn't appeal to me and it wasn't as reliable as the Knights I have owned.

Now...This is nothing against the Optima owners, I am sure that they are fantastic guns. Everyone has their preferences. I own and drive Fords, won't use any other treestand other than a Summit, wear nothing but Mossy Oak camo, only have Remington rifles/shotguns and only shoot Blackhorn 209. To each his own and I respect others choices without criticism.

IMHO you made a great purchase of a muzzleloader that will be reliable and will last you many years.

 

[Widude]

I hunt with 2 guys in particular that have 'brand X' M-L's(no brand names so as to not offend). My Knight has a better trigger, is less fussy & is so much easier to get & keep 'dialed in'.

The other year we stopped on day so one could recheck his M-L. It was still rather unpredictable after a few shots. At 50 yrds one should about be able to thread a needle, consistently.

In some respects a Knight takes a bit more to disassemble properly for cleaning. I'll give em that, but will accept it for good shooting & excellent trigger.

All bragging aside, the truth is known at the range & on the hunt. Get your Knight setup, tweaked, tuned, & dialed in properly & you don't have to say a word. This site is for those that want more than loading some Pyrodex pellets & whatever projectiles the local mart happens to have in stock.

Just to add a bit; I would look to step right up to Blackhorn 209 powder with your new to you gun. You need a strong primmer, CCIM & a few others work fine. I like 45 cal bullets, Hornady SST or T/C Shockwaves usually shoot great. Other than that there are many bullet/sabot combinations you can try. You have to match the right sabot to the bullet & then look for proper bore fit. Don't be hesitant dealing with loose powder, a simple measure & some vials & it's almost dirt simple. You don't need 120 grains for every shot, 80 grns for setup & 110,115, or up to 120 for final sight-in & hunting.

Study up on how to take the bolt apart for cleaning before you shoot the gun, ask the previous owner if you are unsure. With B209 you can clean with regular Hoppes 9. I leave a light oil coat inside & out during any storage periods.

 

[sqezer]

Ditka, RAY NITSCHKE here, :lol: just kidding, I'm here to offer help if you need it. What part of Il. are you from. I'm on vacation next week.

 

[GM54-120]

Can anyone add any helpful insight as to whether or not I made the right purchase?

I never put much importance on a tool-less breach plug. The Lehigh plug in your Elite is the best ever made for BlackHorn. It was so good Knight bought the rights to it. In other plugs, when the flash hole gets too large the plug needs to be replaced or machined to accept a vent liner. In the Lehigh and Savage plug only the $5 vent liner needs to be replaced if it gets too large.

Knight uses Green Mountain Barrels that are tested to over 50K psi. They are one of the best and safest ML barrels of any production muzzleloader. Only the Savage barrels have been proofed to higher standards and they are not usually as smooth as a GMB. I used to own a ML with a Bergara 45cal barrel, it certainly wasn't better than my Elite 45 GM barrel.

Knight uses adjustable Timney type triggers. Many of them are fully adjustable, not just for pull.

It might take a bit longer to clean but the breach in mine cleanup with two patches on a shotgun brush. The Lehigh plug and Win209 primers make it super clean to shoot and have been 100% reliable.

 

[Ditka]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed information and help to this thread. My next question is..... do you have to use a ml specific scope or will a regular center fire scope work just as well?

 

[Smyrnagc]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed information and help to this thread. My next question is..... do you have to use a ml specific scope or will a regular center fire scope work just as well?

Been using regular rifle scopes for years.

 

[Widude]

Yes, a regular scope is just fine. A mid to higher quality if you can swing it.

 

[GM54-120]

There are some ML specific scopes but i usually just use a good 2x7x33 rifle scope. Burris FullField IIs are a good affordable scope for well under $200 and they will take a beating.

 

[River Rat]

I would like to start off by saying I prefer CVA have shot them for years now and my grandfather shot one for years also. With that being said Knight make great guns also. I have shot one and it was very accurate, bug holes if I remember. I would say that Knight might be a little more difficult to clean however anything with black powder is difficult to clean.

I would by any type of rifle scope you can afford just remember when you attach your base to your gun to loc tight it in or use finger nail polish on the screws. Muzzleloaders have good recoil and can move the base without you even knowing it. I learned this the hard way.

I would start with a 300 grain bullet reason for that it seems to me that the heavier the bullet the better the accuracy. For now you just want to get ready for season and in my opinion this will get you sighted in quicker.
dOnce season is over and you want to tinker with different bullets then you have a whole year to do so.

Don't let anyone tell you you bought a bad muzzleloader they all shoot well and as long as you take care of them they will last a very long time!!!!!!!

Welcome aboard and don't be afraid to ask question!!!!!!!!!

RR