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Sabotloader and I have been testing this product and having some impressive results but there were a lot of unanswered questions we were having. So Mike and I contacted the company to see if we could clarify some of the things that concerned other people. Here is the responces we got..
I had some concerns about Montana X-treme Bore Conditioner. I Know Sabotloader and I have been trying it out and finding out some good things about it. But without really knowing, we personally could not tell other members of the forum that his is a great product. And that they should use this product. So I have sent some emails and the questions were answered. I of course sent in a few more questions, but I wanted to keep you updated as to what I have found out about Montana X-treme.
So this is the email, that they answered for me...
Dave,
Great to hear from you again.
Montana X-Treme Bore Conditioning Oil, "the accuracy oil", was developed to penetrate the cracks and pores of the barrel. The longer it sits in the barrel the more it will loosen up carbon embedded in the machine marks, pores and along the edge of the rifling. This is probably what you see on the patch. (In my letter to him I mentioned the black smudges on patches I was getting out of my rifles. And it would make sense, that some of the older rifles would have more carbon built up in all the different nooks and crannies of the barrel.) My guess is that after a while this will be less and less. As you continue to use it you will find that cleaning becomes easier.
This is also true when you use it in your center fire riles. It reduces the amount of copper fouling and makes the copper fouling easier to remove. We have several very good shooters, among them Jeff Hoffman at Black Hills Ammunition, who swear by it. They have found that it eliminated the need for a fouling shot.
(The following are some of the questions I asked)
1) So what exactly is the reason I should use the bore conditioner?
It will penetrate and protect the bore making cleanup easier. It reduces fouling that can lead to poor accuracy.
2) After it is applied, what should I do next?
Leave it in the bore and let it soak in.
3) I dry patch the barrel before I shoot. Is this all I need to do?
Yes. Always dry patch the bore to remove any excess before shooting.
4) And will these oils react to black powder and produce that black tar substance?
The film left in the bore should be extremely light therefore it will not react with any propellant.
I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Don Luhr
Western Powders
Again, I have sent in a few more questions. If you have any questions about the product that you need answered, post them here, and I will send Don a link to this post so he can then address them or what... Hope this is going to help out some of us.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thank you Dave for the follow up... my verbal directions from Shaun @ MX were never written so well.
When I first saw your patches (dirty) I really felt that the product had leached (my term-not MX's word) into the bore and forced foreign material out. Shaun had eluded to that possibilty but I could never get it into the correct words. With so much negative opinions about being able to condition a bore I have not mentioned it in any of my posts.
I am still using and monitoring what it is or might be doing. I have another experiment hopefully scheduled for tomorrow @ the farm.
..............................................................
One question I was having is lets say I have the bore conditioner in the barrel. And I let it sit for say an hour and then dry patch it out. I then should oil the bore correct?
thanks again..
Dave
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Don <don> wrote:
Dave,
We have found that the Bore Conditioning Oil is all you need to protect the bore. The MTX Gun oil is a general lube for moving parts and prevents rust on external parts. The BC oil is pretty cool stuff. The next best thing that you could compare it to is Kroil.
We were doing some work with BC Oil to see if we could get to the point where we don't need a fouling shot for BH209. We had positive results but did not get to pursue it long enough to get anything conclusive.
Have you found that the BC Oil helps to keep the first shot in the group?
Don ..
Don- I was using just the Bore Conditioner. And before shooting I patched the bore with a dry patch. And I was able to hold the first shot into the group using my White Bison. Normally it throws the first one. But I was more concerned that I might need to oil the bore in addition to the bore conditioner. Mike (Sabotloader) spoke to Shaun at MX and was told to oil the bore in addition to the conditioner, so we were kind of lost is space.
I am sure the BlackHorn shooters will be glad to hear no need for a fowling shot. That's one thing I discovered on my BlackHorn testing was.. the more I shot, the more accurate the rifle got.
So I am passing this information along to a couple forums. I also told them any questions they might have, to address me in the forum and I would see if I can get an answer for them..
thanks for the responce..
............................................
The way it sounds.. that black smudge is nothing but carbon that the bore conditioner has pulled out of those old barrels. That's good to know. I will swab them back up again and let it keep working.
I had some concerns about Montana X-treme Bore Conditioner. I Know Sabotloader and I have been trying it out and finding out some good things about it. But without really knowing, we personally could not tell other members of the forum that his is a great product. And that they should use this product. So I have sent some emails and the questions were answered. I of course sent in a few more questions, but I wanted to keep you updated as to what I have found out about Montana X-treme.
So this is the email, that they answered for me...
Dave,
Great to hear from you again.
Montana X-Treme Bore Conditioning Oil, "the accuracy oil", was developed to penetrate the cracks and pores of the barrel. The longer it sits in the barrel the more it will loosen up carbon embedded in the machine marks, pores and along the edge of the rifling. This is probably what you see on the patch. (In my letter to him I mentioned the black smudges on patches I was getting out of my rifles. And it would make sense, that some of the older rifles would have more carbon built up in all the different nooks and crannies of the barrel.) My guess is that after a while this will be less and less. As you continue to use it you will find that cleaning becomes easier.
This is also true when you use it in your center fire riles. It reduces the amount of copper fouling and makes the copper fouling easier to remove. We have several very good shooters, among them Jeff Hoffman at Black Hills Ammunition, who swear by it. They have found that it eliminated the need for a fouling shot.
(The following are some of the questions I asked)
1) So what exactly is the reason I should use the bore conditioner?
It will penetrate and protect the bore making cleanup easier. It reduces fouling that can lead to poor accuracy.
2) After it is applied, what should I do next?
Leave it in the bore and let it soak in.
3) I dry patch the barrel before I shoot. Is this all I need to do?
Yes. Always dry patch the bore to remove any excess before shooting.
4) And will these oils react to black powder and produce that black tar substance?
The film left in the bore should be extremely light therefore it will not react with any propellant.
I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Don Luhr
Western Powders
Again, I have sent in a few more questions. If you have any questions about the product that you need answered, post them here, and I will send Don a link to this post so he can then address them or what... Hope this is going to help out some of us.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thank you Dave for the follow up... my verbal directions from Shaun @ MX were never written so well.
When I first saw your patches (dirty) I really felt that the product had leached (my term-not MX's word) into the bore and forced foreign material out. Shaun had eluded to that possibilty but I could never get it into the correct words. With so much negative opinions about being able to condition a bore I have not mentioned it in any of my posts.
I am still using and monitoring what it is or might be doing. I have another experiment hopefully scheduled for tomorrow @ the farm.
..............................................................
One question I was having is lets say I have the bore conditioner in the barrel. And I let it sit for say an hour and then dry patch it out. I then should oil the bore correct?
thanks again..
Dave
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Don <don> wrote:
Dave,
We have found that the Bore Conditioning Oil is all you need to protect the bore. The MTX Gun oil is a general lube for moving parts and prevents rust on external parts. The BC oil is pretty cool stuff. The next best thing that you could compare it to is Kroil.
We were doing some work with BC Oil to see if we could get to the point where we don't need a fouling shot for BH209. We had positive results but did not get to pursue it long enough to get anything conclusive.
Have you found that the BC Oil helps to keep the first shot in the group?
Don ..
Don- I was using just the Bore Conditioner. And before shooting I patched the bore with a dry patch. And I was able to hold the first shot into the group using my White Bison. Normally it throws the first one. But I was more concerned that I might need to oil the bore in addition to the bore conditioner. Mike (Sabotloader) spoke to Shaun at MX and was told to oil the bore in addition to the conditioner, so we were kind of lost is space.
I am sure the BlackHorn shooters will be glad to hear no need for a fowling shot. That's one thing I discovered on my BlackHorn testing was.. the more I shot, the more accurate the rifle got.
So I am passing this information along to a couple forums. I also told them any questions they might have, to address me in the forum and I would see if I can get an answer for them..
thanks for the responce..
............................................
The way it sounds.. that black smudge is nothing but carbon that the bore conditioner has pulled out of those old barrels. That's good to know. I will swab them back up again and let it keep working.
