Muzzeloader sales

[edmehlig]

I live and hunt in PA. I love hunting with my ML's (Inlines, Flintlocks and Percussion caps) In fact I even hunt with them during our regular rifle season. Because I love making some with them my beloved Rem700 chambered for the 280Rem has become a safe queen. Here in PA you are only allowed one buck period no matter if you buy an Archery, ML or just Big game license. However, you do have the opportunity to purchase extra doe tags if you are any left in the county you wish to hunt in.

 

[LarryBud]

While not seeing the data, my guess is that MZ sales are declining with hunting overall. I know our Game and Fish Department is working hard to expand the hunting pool. Lots of reasons and no easy solutions. Personally, I believe it’s:

1) lack of connection to the real lifestyle as farming become more efficient and most people are city dwellers without Grandpa’s farm ( like I had ).

2) Modern farming practices have been hard on small game. Fewer fence lines, slews, old homesteads etc. clean farming is bad for wildlife.

It’s a sad but inevitable change of the times.

 

[edmehlig]

Can’t tell you the last time I went small game hunting. Between all the warehouses that are being built, housing development, the number of cats coming with the owner of houses, the farming of every inch of land the pheasant and rabbit population is non existent by us. The only option is hunting on state land and there’s not much small game on them. Then when it turns to big game, you have to put up with the army of hunters. When I was younger I use tonhunt deep to get away from them. Now at my age I don’t even think about climbing those mountains and going in deep. Had a couple friends who never made it back out of the woods due to heart attacks.

 

[MSalyards]

I started hunting with ML just for the seasons offered in the peoples republic of Washington. Your allowed 1 type of weapon, modern rifle elk season is 9 days long. Our game management sucks. WDFW thinks more about supporting butterfly's and yuppies than wildlife management and the hunters and fisherman that fund it. When I was young we could start with archery, then hunt ML, and then modern firearm. Now you pick your poison unlike our neighbors next door in Idaho who can still do all three. I also got hooked on shooting ML and have ended up with several both side locks and inlines. I'm getting older also and still I like to head back in the woods as far as my old body will take me. I just go slower. Was supposed to be dead 6 years ago but beat the cancer. I too have heart problems but but we all gotta die somewhere, better in the woods than a nursing home.

 

[ram2]

In Michigan, you can now use certain CF rifles during regular firearms deer season in what used to be the shotgun/muzzleloader zones. Muzzleloader deer season is still muzzleloader only, so sales should not have declined since there is still a season just for muzzleloaders.

 

[LFM]

In Michigan, you can now use certain CF rifles during regular firearms deer season in what used to be the shotgun/muzzleloader zones. Muzzleloader deer season is still muzzleloader only, so sales should not have declined since there is still a season just for muzzleloaders.

Unless you are in the CWD Core Area as last year during ML Season you were allowed to use a Centerfire Rifle during the Muzzleloader Season... The state wanted "more" Deer taken... Yet that did not Happen... at least where I hunt and have for the last 25 plus years...
I want to try something different as to Deer Hunting... I have an older Traditions ML and a Knight Disc Elite both 50 Cal. I have only hnt twice with the Traditions and once with my Knight with 2 grain pellets of T7 and #11 Cap. I was interested years back when I found the Disc Elite but lost interest when other things came up in life. And Preferred Bow Hunting as my main deer hunting. And I shoot an older Oneida Compound Bow and Still do... I am hoping to find the Time to deal in my Knight Disc Elite this summer and then hunt more with it. But Deer Hunting is losing Hunters year after Year and now with CWD the Regs make it hard when you take a deer to transport it outside the CWD areas as it did last year and the Regs were Not clear, depending on who you asked my processor stated one thing and 2 DNR Staff had a different interpretations of the new 2018 CWD Regs.. As I took a Buck with a centerfire and the reg suggested checking it within 24 Hours at least one DNR person made that clear and Another said that as long as you had it Checked before transporting it outside the "Core Area" you met the Reg. And as CWD is spreading here some are dropping outopf Deer hunting at least some I know are... As they say too many Hoops to jump thru to get some meat... So again if you are a die hard deer hunter but some are not. As for ML Sales it is tough to know what is a good ML and know enough to get it shooting well maybe why some stick with CF Rifles no powder measuring, no primer or finding the perfect amount of powder and not Crud Ring to clean after a shot or few... and the time to fine tune your ML...
Just what i have seen...
LFM

 

[Okie Hog]

The vast majority of my deer hunting is with muzzleloaders. We are allowed to kill a total of two bucks and five does in all seasons. Last year i killed my limit of deer. All except one were killed with muzzleloaders. The doe shot with a .308 Winchester required two rounds.

My recent Lawton pawnshop run showed very few muzzleloaders.

 

[Busta]

Yep, CWD is a real game changer. If your in the Core Area or Management Zone, there is no need for a muzzleloader anymore. I have been hunting for 46 years. Never once with a center fire rifle until my 45th year. Taking a buck with one was on my bucket list, and got it done in 2017.

Now with the CWD epidemic, the deer hunting in my immediate area is definitely in the crapper. I live 10 miles from the 1000+ acre family farm, but 2 miles into a different (next) county. The farm is in one of the Counties inside the CWD Core Area, and I live in a adjacent county in the Management Zone that surrounds the Core Area. If I take any deer on the farm, I cannot bring it home UNLESS I take the head to a CWD checkpoint or drop box within 24 hours. OR, it must be processed inside the Core Area, the skull cap cleaned of all tissue and brain matter. OR, it must be completely deboned in the field, with no spinal column tissue attached to the meat, skull cap completely cleaned of all tissue and brain matter. Yes, it's a real PITA, and like LFM mentioned above, less hunters are hunting in the ZONE.

The ones that are still hunting in the 16 CWD counties (5 Core Area, 11 Management Zone) are going to use their Center Fires during the Muzzleloading Deer Seasons for the most part. Especially when you have to jump through all the hoops immediately after taking an animal.

It's real hard to get excited about completely processing a deer, that may have CWD. Then either take a chance eating it, or waiting 2 weeks to find out if the animal has CWD or not. Even for this old dyed in the wool hunter!

I guess it's time to do more out of state hunting trips, while a guy still can.

CWD is a real "Game Changer"!

As far as muzzleloader sales, the market has been saturated for around 10 years. Lots of people have way more than they can shoot. Myself included. I'm going to start thinning the herd here soon. Nobody NEEDS 15 or 16 muzzleloaders, do they?

The New muzzleloaders selling today are going to be either entry level, be nitride treated, or fast twist .45 calibers for the most part. Lots of excellent used .50 calibers on the market. I'm probably going to sell at least 4 Knights in the next month or two. Maybe more?

 

[WPrather]

CVA seems to be pretty smart about this. They seem to be adapting to the new states laws to make up the money they are missing out on in muzzeloader sales. Except for a couple youth models. Their whole Scout V2 line of rifles are 35cal and larger. The average joe hunter buys a muzzeloader to have a extra season because he likes to hunt. I can’t blame anyone for that. But if your a average joe hunter just wanting more time in the woods. Why would you spend $500 dollars on a CVA Accura muzzeloader. When you can spend $300 dollars on a Scout V2 in 35 whelen or 444 marlin? CVA also came out with a new line of bolt action centerfire rifles this year. It seems like their business model is adjusting to the new state laws.

 

[Busta]

CVA seems to be pretty smart about this. They seem to be adapting to the new states laws to make up the money they are missing out on in muzzeloader sales. Except for a couple youth models. Their whole Scout V2 line of rifles are 35cal and larger. The average joe hunter buys a muzzeloader to have a extra season because he likes to hunt. I can’t blame anyone for that. But if your a average joe hunter just wanting more time in the woods. Why would you spend $500 dollars on a CVA Accura muzzeloader. When you can spend $300 dollars on a Scout V2 in 35 whelen or 444 marlin? CVA also came out with a new line of bolt action centerfire rifles this year. It seems like their business model is adjusting to the new state laws.

The smart ones are adjusting to the new market. Some are way ahead of the game, others not so much!

CVA Has the .35 Whelen, .444 Marlin, .45-70 for the Southern "Primitive" States and some of the Mid-West States. They also have the .357 Mag, .44 Mag, 450 Bushmaster for the Straight wall cartridge Mid-West States (Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Iowa), and Delaware.

Winchester introduced the .350 Legend at the SHOT Show last month. SAAMI accepted it at that time. CVA had the Scout V2 chambered in .350 Legend cataloged within 2 weeks. Probably before they left SHOT. I have seen them listed at online dealers for at least 2 weeks now. Ruger will have rifles chambered in the 350 Legend before Winchester has theirs ready in June. Hornady will also have .350 Legend Ammo ready before Winchester has their ammo ready as well. CVA might have rifles ready before then as well? MGM plans on having .350 Legend Encore and Contender barrels by the end of March. They are just waiting for the reamers. If you bring something new out to SHOT these days, you better be ready to produce or already be producing product. Otherwise, the smart ones will beat you to it!

Ruger had promised Randy's Hunting Center in Bad Axe the first 1500 rifles chambered in .350 Legend. They were the #1 retailer for Ruger in 2017. Randy's has sold a few thousand Rugers chambered in .450 Bushmaster. The .350 Legend will be popular with women, children, and guys that don't like a lot if recoil.

Here is a good read about Randy's Award, and the changing times of muzzleloaders, slug guns, straight walled pistol and rifle cartridges in Michigan.

https://www.ourmidland.com/sports/amp/Tom-Lounsbury-nbsp-Randy-s-Hunting-Center-named-12772482.php

Now that CWD is here, and expanding, so too will the center fire rifle use during the muzzleloader seasons. I would guess at least 25% to 50% of Southern Michigan Deer hunters used their Muzzleloaders in the old Shotgun Zone. Now that straight walled rifle cartridges can be used in the Limited Firearms Deer Zone, the use and sales of muzzleloaders has to be tanking fast. Then 16 counties allowing rifles and any other legal guns during the muzzleloader season, has to really put a hunting on future sales. As more counties are added to the CWD Zones, there will be even less muzzleloader use and sales. You can expect other states to adopt this as their CWD areas grow as well.

The smart ones are staying ahead of the game!

 

[ENCORE50A]

............Now that CWD is here, and expanding, so too will the center fire rifle use during the muzzleloader seasons. I would guess at least 25% to 50% of Southern Michigan Deer hunters used their Muzzleloaders in the old Shotgun Zone. Now that straight walled rifle cartridges can be used in the Limited Firearms Deer Zone, the use and sales of muzzleloaders has to be tanking fast...………..

I know a lot of guys and old neighbors in those areas, all of whom stopped using muzzleloaders and switched to the .450 Bushmaster. The family of four that have the old farm (N of Portland), always used muzzleloaders throughout the entire seasons. He told me they set in the safe now. I believe sales of muzzleloaders and accessories in that area have to be way down.
I'm actually surprised that they don't allow CF rifles during the dedicated muzzleloader season within the bTB areas. That might be next. They tried APR's and it failed miserably by increasing the incident rate of bTB.

 

[Chick]

If all states went to a Primitive Weapons season, like Louisiana has, that would pretty much end the muzzle loader market, unless they would offer a muzzle loader season only, as well.

 

[WPrather]

I haven’t seen anything on the 350 legend yet. I need to check into it. I like the 357 maximum, it’s a bad little round. I use it in a 13in Contender g2 pistol with a Hornady 180gr xtp. But in a rifle barrel 20in or more the 357 maximum pushes pretty close to the 35rem. Which I have a 23in 35rem barrel for my Contender too. But the 357 maximum is a great straight walled rifle round for women and kids.

 

[Busta]

I haven’t seen anything on the 350 legend yet. I need to check into it. I like the 357 maximum, it’s a bad little round. I use it in a 13in Contender g2 pistol with a Hornady 180gr xtp. But in a rifle barrel 20in or more the 357 maximum pushes pretty close to the 35rem. Which I have a 23in 35rem barrel for my Contender too. But the 357 maximum is a great straight walled rifle round for women and kids.

Here is a little bit about the .350 Legend in this link. Might help you get up to speed. It's basically a rimless .357 Max in a 1.71" case that can be used in AR's , bolts, tip-ups, and other platforms.

https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/new-from-winchester-350-legend.33236/

 

[Busta]

I know a lot of guys and old neighbors in those areas, all of whom stopped using muzzleloaders and switched to the .450 Bushmaster. The family of four that have the old farm (N of Portland), always used muzzleloaders throughout the entire seasons. He told me they set in the safe now. I believe sales of muzzleloaders and accessories in that area have to be way down.
I'm actually surprised that they don't allow CF rifles during the dedicated muzzleloader season within the bTB areas. That might be next. They tried APR's and it failed miserably by increasing the incident rate of bTB.

Yep, the muzzleloader during the general firearms deer seasons are becoming a thing of the past. In these 16 counties, they are going to be a thing of the past during the muzzleloader deer seasons as well.

Since the .450 Bushmaster came on the scene in the affordable bolt and tip-up rifles, you can't even hardly GIVE away a slug gun. I've got some good ones too!