Need advice on new inline rifle for hunting

[ENCORE50A]

'The recoil from 120gr of BH and it still drops 42" at 350yds.

The recoil from 120grs Volume of BH is nothing if you're not shooting a 4.5# rifle.

What is your concern with the drop of 42" at 350yds? You dial for that distance.

Look at the drop for 500yds..... 112.8". You dial that distance into your scope.

Yes........ there are other factors that come into play, especially at 500yds over 350 but, practice, practice, practice.

 

[Muley Hunter]

The recoil from 120grs Volume of BH is nothing if you're not shooting a 4.5# rifle.

What is your concern with the drop of 42" at 350yds? You dial for that distance.

Look at the drop for 500yds..... 112.8". You dial that distance into your scope.

Yes........ there are other factors that come into play, especially at 500yds over 350 but, practice, practice, practice.

Shooting a target is not hunting. Too much to go wrong at that distance while hunting with a muzzleloader. You have one chance to get a shot you've never taken before. Humane shots should have much better odds.

 

[GM54-120]

Guys are shooting a load just like that all they time at Friendship and shooting better groups than i can manage at 200y. Nothing new, long range buffalo killers did it too when pickins got more scarce.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Shooting a target is not hunting. Too much to go wrong at that distance while hunting with a muzzleloader. You have one chance to get a shot you've never taken before. Humane shots should have much better odds.

Only if you don't know what you're doing.
Muley we all understand that you despise long range shooting and hunting, which is your choice but, others are quite proficient at both.
If you're worried about someone taking a 350yd shot standing and shooting off hand, well........... no hunters I know or shooters that I know would take those kind of shots.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Guys are shooting a load just like that all they time at Friendship and shooting better groups than i can manage at 200y. Nothing new, long range buffalo killers did it too when pickins got more scarce.

You have to wonder how many buffalo were wounded and never retrieved? What did they care? They had a huge herd to shoot.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Only if you don't know what you're doing.
Muley we all understand that you despise long range shooting and hunting, which is your choice but, others are quite proficient at both.
If you're worried about someone taking a 350yd shot standing and shooting off hand, well........... no hunters I know or shooters that I know would take those kind of shots.

No, I don't despise it. I have friends who do it. I did it lot with coyotes and CF guns. I don't do it with big game because I really enjoy the challenge of sneaking in close. Yes, my shots are easy but getting close isn't.

Two different skills. Sneaking in close and taking long shots. In this thread we have a hunter new to muzzleloaders. I don't think a 350yd shot while hunting is a good idea for him. Nobody needs to shoot that far. They do it because they want to. As i've said many times. You don't need to take every shot you see.

 

[GM54-120]

The OP asked about rifles capable of 350yard shots. That is after all the current topic. No sense in buying a lesser quality rifle if SOMEDAY he would like to shoot further.

Missouri does not have all the silly ML restrictions so the sky is the limit. As long as its 40cal or larger he is legal. There is plenty of farm land with long shot possibilities. I hunted one for years from a huge tree stand with solid rest.

 

[brownisdown]

I strongly believe that each man should know his limitations and skills to make that long a shot.Just because the gun will reach the distance not mean I can.If a deer is out there at 300 yds I try to wait and perhaps let him move in closer.

 

[Muley Hunter]

GM.....Well, let's see how he takes everything in this thread. He hasn't been back since posting this thread.

Carlos took a CVA Accura and cut the barrel to 20". He shot tiny groups with it at 300yds. It's the shooter and not an expensive gun.

 

[GM54-120]

I keep hearing CVA yet never seen one win at Friendships inline matches. When they are winning with a less expensve model i will recommend one too. So far even the mighty Paramount has failed to compete against the competition. Its not like Bergara does not have a skilled shooting team. They just choose not to compete in ML events........sofar.

The absolute fact is.....Knights have and still do compete with loads that would be ethical in terms of power. You can buy the same rifle that has won many matches for under $800. It weighs less than a Paramount, cost less than a Paramount. Can stabilize a longer bullet than a Paramount.

So you see, i recommended a rifle that fits his criteria with the best chance of success given FACTS i can prove without a doubt. As someone that owns 3 fast twist 45s im confident they are upto shots well past 200 yards.

Its even sorta purty.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I don't know the reason either. It would be better to see them enter and get beat than not enter at all. It doesn't mean they couldn't win but more they aren't interested. They push their guns as hunting guns and I guess that means average hunting distances. They certainly sell a lot of them and i'm sure that's their goal.

 

[GM54-120]

The stock on the Paramount is a HMR stock. That stands for Hunter Match Rifle.

Cool stock too if you dont mind lugging around a rifle that weighs well over 10lbs ready to hunt. Their entire marketing for it is LONG RANGE. Does it really matter if the object at the end of that range is a target or a deer? Not really. A poor group is a poor group regardless of what its impacting.

They might be on to something with the new MRX 40cal. Cant wait to learn more about it. That rifle would be completely legal in Mo. Cool stock and claimed weight under 7lbs bare. Could be well under $700 also for just the rifle. We just dont know yet. What we do know is shooting just 120grV of BH209 in a 40cal you can get some impressive speeds with high BC bullets. No SUPER MAG loads or sabots needed.

Sure hope this one turns out well. I will be right in line to get one if it proves itself and specs are close to the claimed. Mainly the weight. A 40cal 400gr conical is right up my alley.

 

[ENCORE50A]

............................ They push their guns as hunting guns and I guess that means average hunting distances................./QUOTE]

Muley, you better check out exactly what those guys with Paramount rifles are doing. Average hunting distances????? Sorry, but you're misinformed.

The OP asked for long range information.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I think cva's focus is selling rifles and bullets ,,not winning matches,,I think it's why they build their rifle bore dimensions around their bullets that seems obvious,,if I was going to build a match winning rifle I sure wouldn't have chose the bore dimensions that they did if I was going to sell bullets I might have.Mr Parker told me on the phone one day that when they first designed the Paramount it had an American bore, I guess it was one of the early prototypes he said it put bullets in the same hole, but again if I'm about selling power belt bullets it would just make sense strategically that my bore and bullet be unique I really think that was a business decision that CVA made

 

[Muley Hunter]

That's a lot of weight to hunt with. If I wanted that i'd still use a Hawken. I'm not sure what CVA has in mind with that gun?

 

[Muley Hunter]

To be honest. I wasn't even thinking of the Paramount. It's another target gun to me.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I have a paramount I really like it it's very accurate but but it sets in the closet during their season too many lightweight options,, if I had the strength and ego I did 30 years ago I'm sure I would look at that different.

 

[GM54-120]

Designing a rifle to shoot just one projectile is a poor marketing strategy. It will be the downfall of the MRX 40 if they continue. That is where Knight hit the home run with the Mountaineer and ULite in 45cal 1-20. Both are hunting rifles that shoot well with a huge variety of bullets.

CVA can easily do something similar with a MR and PR in 45 fast twist. On paper they both look like they would make excellent hunting rifles with a little more effective range than the typical 50cals available.

 

[ronlaughlin]

need to know what you would recommend, and what loads

Years ago now, a herd of antelope was spotted out about a mile, with an hour of light left. Decision was made to leave them, and return at first light. Next morning a sneak was commenced blind from a guessed half mile out. Hoping the walk was toward the goats, many steps were taken. Each ridge was approached with care. Carefully cresting a ridge, the goats were seen a way out there. Them goats picked a great spot to sleep i.e. great for them not the hunter.

The load in the rifle was 115g Blackhorn, 200g Shockwave. The rifle was a 45 caliber Omega. Prior to the antelope season, the rifle/load had been shot jillions of times at 200 yard; many times at 300 yard, and once at 450 yard. The rifle was super accurate, if there was no breeze. Using the range finder to determine the distance, and using the cds dial to set the scope worked, and worked, over, and over, and over.

Don't recall the range, but do recall snow flakes softly falling; zero breeze. Walked an arroyo toward the antelope, when it went away, walked hunched over, on the terrain below the ridge. Seems like the distance to the bedded goats was about 360 yard or so, and it looked to be a long long way. Cresting the ridge, one had to crawl, to kinda stay out of sight; there were so many eyes, it kinda seemed impossible to get closer. Probably was about 340 yard; it seemed so far. Still was zero wind. Began crawling on the down slope toward the bedded goats; with little hope of not being seen by all those eyes.

Crawled, and crawled slowly getting closer to the goats. Crawling through cactus isn't much fun. When the down slope steepened it seemed impossible to get closer. Was able to kinda range the distance through the grass at 325 yard above/behind the antelope. Seemed it was time to shoot, or go home. The engraved cds dial was set to one click above 300 yard. Practiced breathing, aiming, rifle supported by elbows. Questioned whether the shot was good enough. Zero breeze.

Picked out a goat lying at a good angle. Took the shot because of how much work it took to get there. Had to. The sleeping goat never got up; did wake up to die. Ranged the shot after standing up, to the dead goat. 314 yard or so.

At the time, the rifle was the most accurate here. There was zero breeze. Had practiced, and practiced for months.

Next time an antelope hunt is made, the rifle will be a breech loader.

 

[GM54-120]

Thanks to vendors like Fury, Arrowhead and Pittman our 40cal bullet options for sabots are so much better than we had in the past. Lots of people dont want to mess with sabotless even if it solves tons of issues. All we need now is a better 45x40 sabot. A 250gr 40cal in a sabot with a max load of BH209 is over 2100fps and probably pushing 2200fps. That is MLII book load speed with a far better quality bullet. Cheaper than the Powerbelt ELR options too.

A 220gr ELR 40cal to me is going backward when other vendors are going forward with cheaper heavier 40s including bonded jacket bullets. $2 a pop for a plated bullet just does not interest me in the least. The homework for 40cal MLs was done long ago. No need to reinvent the rifle bore/twist. If i wanted to shoot a over priced 225ish grain 40 i could have been doing it for years with PR DeadCenters or QTs.