Need help diagnosing some unexplained flyers.

[oregonelkhunter2]

Greeting: I have been away from the forum for a while. I am getting ready for an elk hunt and need some help with a problem I have with my load.

I am shooting a TC Renegade with a .50 cal Green Mt. replacement barrel with 1:28 twist. . My load is 85gr of T7 2F, with a shot card below a 503x460 No Excuses conical.

I am cleaning between shots – 3-4 patches with Hoppe’s Elite Black Powder solvent, followed by 2 dry patches, then 2 fired CCI #11 Magnum caps.
75% of the time, this is a great load. 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards. However, randomly it will throw an unexplained flyer.

The flyers are always 4-6 inches below the above group. Also, when I go to clean, the barrel is substantially more fouled than the good shots. Takes me 5-7 patches to get a clean barrel. Finally, when it happens I do not hear the “thump” against the target I normally hear with the good shots.

I am hoping the Wise Ones on the forum with have some answers.

Thanks for our help. Wes

 

[Semisane]

I suspect that every now and then you're pushing a cleaning patch that's too damp down the bore, and pushing a pile of wet fouling into the chambered breech.

Try this. Put a sheet of paper on the ground next to your shooting station. After finishing your between shot cleaning routine and before loading, put the muzzle a few inches from the paper with the gun in a vertical position and slap the breech area with the palm of your hand. You may be surprised at what falls out of the bore.

 

[cayuga]

I have experienced the exact same problem with an identical rifle. I personally suspected as Semisane said, I cleaned the barrel wrong. I use Windex to swab with. I swab one patch both sides, and if I note an unusual amount of fouling, I do a second patch. Then some dry ones until I am sure the barrel is nice and clean. But I will say, as hard as I try to do it perfect, I still get a flier once in a while.

 

[sabotloader]

Greeting: I have been away from the forum for a while. I am getting ready for an elk hunt and need some help with a problem I have with my load.

I am shooting a TC Renegade with a .50 cal Green Mt. replacement barrel with 1:28 twist. . My load is 85gr of T7 2F, with a shot card below a 503x460 No Excuses conical.

I am cleaning between shots – 3-4 patches with Hoppe’s Elite Black Powder solvent, followed by 2 dry patches, then 2 fired CCI #11 Magnum caps.
75% of the time, this is a great load. 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards. However, randomly it will throw an unexplained flyer.

The flyers are always 4-6 inches below the above group. Also, when I go to clean, the barrel is substantially more fouled than the good shots. Takes me 5-7 patches to get a clean barrel. Finally, when it happens I do not hear the “thump” against the target I normally hear with the good shots.

I am hoping the Wise Ones on the forum with have some answers.

Thanks for our help. Wes

I believe the two suggestions you have already gotten are a good possibilities. For many years I shot the same rifle with the same projectile, using a shot card and T7-3f (ignites a little easier and burns cleaner). I switched to a Windex parch many years ago, and I would tell you the patch is just barely damp. Using a Regular Blue Windex is a slight advantage in that it has a small amount of Ammonia in the solution that aids in cleaning and evaporation- carrying water with in the evaporation process.

The other thought I would offer using T7 and cap ignition I do not find it necessary to even run a patch after shooting. The cap does not create enough heat to cause the 'crud ring' associated with T7 powder especially with 3f.

This is the process I use to make Windex patches... Again squeeze out as much Windex as you can...

 

[oregonelkhunter2]

Semisane, an overly wet patch may very well be the problem. A couple of times I noticed that I was actually getting some foam back on the patch after scrubbing. I will follow all three of your suggestions and make sure my patches are well drained before using.

Cayuga and Sabotloader - not surprised you recognize the setup I described. Both of you help me creat this this combination several years ago. I have been using the No Excuses recently, but previously used the Bull Shop bullets. I just heard on the site (thanks sabotloader) that bullshop is producing again. I have sent in an order.

One more question please – about your cleaning procedure: after I have gotten most of the black powder out of the barrel, I have been taking a clean, dry patch and pushing it to the very end of the barrel, touching the breech. I then turn the patch one complete revolution to scrub the face. It results in a circular ring on the patch corresponding to the underlying jag I am using.

Is this scrubbing the end of barrel/breech a good idea or could it be resulting in some of the problems I have experienced?

Thanks again for all of your help. OEH2

 

[ShawnT]

Congrads on getting to go on the Elk hunt. Would love to do that sometime in the future.

A couple of times I noticed that I was actually getting some foam back on the patch after scrubbing.

That sounds like the patch is way too wet. Ring that patch out till just "Barely Damp". The Windex that Sabotloader mentioned works great and is much cheaper than commercial BP solvents. I normally use the same Windex to do my final cleaning too.

Is this scrubbing the end of barrel/breech a good idea or could it be resulting in some of the problems I have experienced?

If you use an overly wet patch and do that, I would think the twisting of the patch on the end of the jag on top of the breech plug would "Squeeze" some of the solvent out of that patch and let it run into the drum/snail and the following Dry patches would not remove that. I'm a little surprised you don't get any hang fires.

I personally would use a slightly damp (Almost Dry) patch for swabbing and eliminate that rotating the patch on the BP when swabbing between shots. That might be ok for a "Final Cleaning" before putting the rifle away but not necessary for between shots.

 

[idahoron]

Watch this video. It will explain my procidure. I am with the other guys I think it is wet fouling. This video will explain it.

https://youtu.be/ibU-5uCuy_I

 

[oregonelkhunter2]

You guys are great, thanks for all your help.

Ron, I have enjoyed your videos . I have similar sights on my Renegade. Thanks again. OEH2