Need Help with accuracy issues TC Renegade

[Jarisman]

Hey all, I have a .54cal Renegade flintlock that I am having an accuracy issue with. I centered the front and rear sights to start with, but at 25yds I had to drift the front sight just to get zeroed, then at 50yds I was 8" left from the 25yd zero.
The load was a patched roundball over 80gr FFg.
Do you think this gun just doesn't like the roundballs, or is this a barrel issue?
I have some R.E.A.L bullets that I cast to try but haven't had a chance to try them yet.
I bought the gun used but looked like it had hardly been used, and the front sight was drifted pretty far when I got it, so the previous owner had the same problem.
SN: 509**

Let me know if there is anything I should check.

Thanks all.

 

[snapbang]

If your hitting zero at 25 and 8"left at 50 that means your shooting a curve ball. ??????????????
Are you shooting the same round balls the previous owner used????
Maybe a different diameter round ball???
Maybe a different patch thickness??????
Maybe double patch the round balls you have??????????????

 

[Jarisman]

If your hitting zero at 25 and 8"left at 50 that means your shooting a curve ball. ??????????????
Are you shooting the same round balls the previous owner used????
Maybe a different diameter round ball???
Maybe a different patch thickness??????
Maybe double patch the round balls you have??????????????

I cast my own, they are .535, I tried 2 different thickness patches, same results.

 

[deermanok]

I know some people do it but I've never moved the front sight on any of my smoke poles.
I've only ever drifted the rear sight.
I owned a Renegade at one time and it shot round balls good.
At present, I have a Traditions rifle that just won't shoot a ball worth beans.
It's good with conicals though.

 

[snapbang]

How about the muzzle crown??????
Any dents, knicks, damage to the muzzle? All the rifling at the muzzle seem intact????
Any chance the sights are loose?????

 

[Dave951]

Check the crown and if possible, see if the barrel is straight.

 

[Jarisman]

I know some people do it but I've never moved the front sight on any of my smoke poles.
I've only ever drifted the rear sight.
I owned a Renegade at one time and it shot round balls good.
At present, I have a Traditions rifle that just won't shoot a ball worth beans.
It's good with conicals though.

I drifted it because I was out of rear sight adjustment. I need to try to find time to try conicals.

 

[Jarisman]

Check the crown and if possible, see if the barrel is straight.

Eyeballing the barrel it seems straight....

 

[eekjellander]

I cast my own, they are .535, I tried 2 different thickness patches, same results.

Try locating patch after shooting sounds like a issue , what shape are they in ? Torn /burned thru/ cut? Any of those things plus are you shooting old patch stuff ,swap out patch with new /change lube and last a 530 ball with all the above . Jo anns Fabric sells great selection and last let your buddy shoot it and see if it changes /Ed

 

[Bert621]

Drop the charge 10 grains or even 20 and see what happens

 

[Dave951]

Try locating patch after shooting sounds like a issue , what shape are they in ? Torn /burned thru/ cut? Any of those things plus are you shooting old patch stuff ,swap out patch with new /change lube and last a 530 ball with all the above . Jo anns Fabric sells great selection and last let your buddy shoot it and see if it changes /Ed

I have a rifle that has a bore so bad the patches are pretty much not more than a dirty lint ball after firing, but darn if it doesn't shoot.

 

[rusticbob]

If you are that far off, and the front sight is already drifted over, check the barrel with a straight edge and make sure it is not bent, sounds strange, but I have seen it happen. Easy fix if that is the problem.
I have a .54 Renegade that shoots patched .530 RBI’s just great, .015 patch lubed with Wonderlube. 70 grains of FFG is my favorite

 

[Confederate rifleman]

Rather than bent, the issue may be run out.
Run out is where the bore is off center in the barrel. T/Cs seem to be particularly prone to this defect. I can think of a half dozen Hawkens and Renegades I've had that had varying degrees of run out. All were on the horizontal...
Grrrrr...
A quick check of the crown will show one side looking a little deeper than the other, where the rifling begins. If the defect is on the vertical, it's much easier to zero. It's a matter of elevation correction.
Horizontal is a whole other story...
The fact you've run out of windage is a strong indicator that your barrel has run out on the horizontal.
As far as accuracy goes, it doesn't matter much with ball. All a ball can do is drift.
With conicals... No Bueno. If it's bad enough, conicals that are within the rifling's ability to stabilize, may keyhole.
A cut off sabot base REALLY helps and sabot loads shoot decently too, so all is not lost.
The effect is the same as a poorly done Q.L.A.
Good fortune to ya.

 

[Jarisman]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will check the muzzle and also measure the muzzle for any run out. I threw a straight edge on it before and it seemed straight....
In the event it has run out what are my options? I have heard of people having them rebored, but can it be bored true or will it follow the original bore?

 

[snapbang]

How about calling T/C??? Cant imagine they would want this product representing them,.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

I don't know about reboring enough to say that runout can be eliminated by doing so. You'd have to bore it out sufficiently to completely eliminate the defective bore, then re- rifle. May not have enough barrel thickness left, or get into sight base/ dovetail holes. At that point, relining would be your best bet. If you stay .54, or even go .50, I can HIGHLY recommend the 1-38 twist. What that does with conicals, and sabots, is amazing. The crown can be recut to be true to the bore and so shoot conicals well. But the sight zero issues will persist.
The barrel could be rebreached to put the defect on the vertical, but then you'd have to fill the dovetails and screw holes, and then have them recut/ d&t'd. Not very attractive.
If you have some round stock that precisely fits the bore, have about a foot in the bore and maybe 4 inches protruding from the muzzle. Put a T square on the protruding part and if it isn't flush to the muzzle, you have runout.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

T/C ( S&W) is LONG out of the sidelock muzzleloader business. They don't even support their earlier inlines like the Thunder/ Firehawks, Black Diamonds and Omegas.
Ever since they were bought out, it's been TRAGIC...

 

[snapbang]

Thanks CR. Im not familiar with TC History. Guess I should. I own two.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

I feel your pain.
I have:
1 Thunderhawk
1 Firehawk
1 Omega Z5
3 Renegades
A Hawken
And 2 Pennsylvania Hunters...

 

[Clifford]

I have a 54 renegade and this load shoots very well from it - I don't remember the exact group size at 100 yards, but much better than I thought I would get. Like less than 2 inches.
100 grains Goex FFg - or pyrodex RS.
Harvester 54/45 sabot - red colored.
Hornady 250 grain XTP (regular, not magnum.)
The sabot fit in the bore is very tight. The first load on a clean barrel is difficult, after one shot pounding is required!
After the second shot, a swab in the field is necessary to reload again.