New guy with a Blackhorn 209 question

[WPrather]

I have muzzeloader hunted for probably 25yrs and have killed several deer with a muzzeloader. I actually really like a muzzeloader and have carried it several times instead of a rifle deer season. But I have always shot pellets I haven’t ever shot loose powder before. I have had several different guns over the years but my new one is a TC Prohunter Xt with the 28in barrel. With 150grs of 777 pellets I can get about 1 1/2-2in groups with 250gr Hornady SST’s at 100yds. But I think it can do better. I have tried 2 pellets (100grs) and 2 magnum pellets (120grs) and even the300gr SST. I have read all that I can find all over the net about the Blackhorn 209 powder and have pretty much made up my mind to try it. But I don’t have anything for loose powder so by the time I buy a TC uview powder flask, TC uview powder measure, Blackhorn 209 powder and powder tubes and what ever else I need it’s a pretty good investment.

All the stuff I have read about Blackhorn 209 I really like except for 1 thing and it could be a deal breaker. So that leads me to my question. I have read that Blackhorn 209 don’t shoot good the first shot on a clean gun. I have seen where some people say it needs a fowling shot or 2 to start really doing good. Is that true or not?

 

[dbowling]

In my gun the 1st shot is usually only off by maybe a inch and if you want to help simulate a 1st shot just pop off 4-5 209 primers they put a lot more fouling in the barrel then you think.

I have muzzeloader hunted for probably 25yrs and have killed several deer with a muzzeloader. I actually really like a muzzeloader and have carried it several times instead of a rifle deer season. But I have always shot pellets I haven’t ever shot loose powder before. I have had several different guns over the years but my new one is a TC Prohunter Xt with the 28in barrel. With 150grs of 777 pellets I can get about 1 1/2-2in groups with 250gr Hornady SST’s at 100yds. But I think it can do better. I have tried 2 pellets (100grs) and 2 magnum pellets (120grs) and even the300gr SST. I have read all that I can find all over the net about the Blackhorn 209 powder and have pretty much made up my mind to try it. But I don’t have anything for loose powder so by the time I buy a TC uview powder flask, TC uview powder measure, Blackhorn 209 powder and powder tubes and what ever else I need it’s a pretty good investment.

All the stuff I have read about Blackhorn 209 I really like except for 1 thing and it could be a deal breaker. So that leads me to my question. I have read that Blackhorn 209 don’t shoot good the first shot on a clean gun. I have seen where some people say it needs a fowling shot or 2 to start really doing good. Is that true or not?

 

[Lee 9]

A flask? why?
For deer hunting a few TC quick loaders a short starter and a container for 209's. I can carry my hunting reloads in my shirt pocket;4 quick loaders a T short starter and a pocket pill box with a doz. 209's. In fact I consider the quick loaders faster than pellets.
For the range a tool or tackle box with you supplies and cleaning equipment.

 

[03mossy]

All guns are different if the first shot on a clean bore will impact the same or be a flyer. For example my Omega is about a half inch high of the rest of the shots. But my mountaineer impacts about 6" high and left. So with the mountaineer I pop 3 primers and run a patch of loc ease down the bore and then the impact is only an inch or so high.

 

[ShawnT]

A flask? why?
For deer hunting a few TC quick loaders a short starter and a container for 209's. I can carry my hunting reloads in my shirt pocket;4 quick loaders a T short starter and a pocket pill box with a doz. 209's. In fact I consider the quick loaders faster than pellets.
For the range a tool or tackle box with you supplies and cleaning equipment.

+1.

Just get a bottle funnel that screws onto the Black Horn powder bottle to dispense it. They are cheap.

 

[rangerod]

What Lee 9 and ShawnT said. You don't need the flask. With the red bottle spout just pour from the bottle directly into the u-view powder measure then into a powder tube. Check out Muzzle-Loaders.com. If you look around you might find these items cheaper elsewhere. As far as difference in poi from a clean to a fouled bore you won't know till you go to the range. All guns are different.

 

[WPrather]

Is the first shot with a clean gun just a Blackhorn 209 thing? I have never noticed it before with any of my guns with 777 pellets. I run 1 cleaning patch down the barrel and 1 dry patch between every shot when sighting in with 777 so every shot is a clean barrel.

 

[WV Hunter]

Is the first shot with a clean gun just a Blackhorn 209 thing? I have never noticed it before with any of my guns with 777 pellets. I run 1 cleaning patch down the barrel and 1 dry patch between every shot when sighting in with 777 so every shot is a clean barrel.

Yes, it can happen with any powder. Again, its not all guns or loads. Most times its not far enough off that it matters much anyhow - at least for me because most of my shots are not super far.

 

[SteveH]

One thing, if you have an older TC gun make sure you have the proper breech plug for GH209. I believe some of the older TC's had breech plugs with a flat face. You want a breech plug with a sort of cup (like a hollow point bullet) for reliable ignition.

Look at viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29188

The above post if for Omegas but I am pretty sure the Encore also had a flat breech plug.

 

[toytruck]

My optima V2 is dead on at 25yds to 100yds first shot 90gr volume BH209 just saying...

 

[MrTom]

Inside 100 yards the first shot point of impact on a clean barrel won't matter that much. If you're looking at 150 and beyond, then maybe do the fouling shot. I pop a couple primers on a clean barrel and a 209 load and go hunting and I hit where I aim. The difference isn't enough to not make the change. 209 has more positives than negatives.

 

[WPrather]

My Tc Prohunter XT is 2yrs old and has the speed breech xt. I hunt in the woods in southern Missouri so I don’t take far shots. Most of the time 125-150yds is about the max but 90% of my shots are under 100yds.

When I first bought the gun it had a 28in 30/06 barrel on it and I wasn’t happy with the groups out of it. Mainly because the trigger sucked. So I sent it off and had it worked over and now it’s pretty sweet at 2.5lbs. I had all the springs changed, I even changed all the lock down springs in my barrels and I use the oversized hinge pins. Now my 30/06 will shoot 3 shots touching at 100yds. But the 50cal just ain’t there yet, 1 1/2-2ins probably ain’t all that bad for pellets but I have had guns that did better. Loose powder and some more bullets and different kinds of sabots seems like the way to go to get it to where I want it to be.

I know a 150grs of pellets and a 120grs of Blackhorn 209 is the max load recommended. But what about 777 loose powder is it’s max load 120grs or 150grs? Also what 777 loose powder is best for this gun 2F or 3F?

 

[rangerod]

150 grns of 777 would be maximum load. Considered to be equivalent to 120 grns of black horn. 2F-3F either will work fine. I use 2F in my 50 caliber percussion guns.

 

[sabotloader]

My Tc Prohunter XT is 2yrs old and has the speed breech xt. I hunt in the woods in southern Missouri so I don’t take far shots. Most of the time 125-150yds is about the max but 90% of my shots are under 100yds.

When I first bought the gun it had a 28in 30/06 barrel on it and I wasn’t happy with the groups out of it. Mainly because the trigger sucked. So I sent it off and had it worked over and now it’s pretty sweet at 2.5lbs. I had all the springs changed, I even changed all the lock down springs in my barrels and I use the oversized hinge pins. Now my 30/06 will shoot 3 shots touching at 100yds. But the 50cal just ain’t there yet, 1 1/2-2ins probably ain’t all that bad for pellets but I have had guns that did better. Loose powder and some more bullets and different kinds of sabots seems like the way to go to get it to where I want it to be.

I know a 150grs of pellets and a 120grs of Blackhorn 209 is the max load recommended. But what about 777 loose powder is it’s max load 120grs or 150grs? Also what 777 loose powder is best for this gun 2F or 3F?

Just a note... 150 grains of pellets is equal to about 120 grains (volume) of T7 or BH. BH will produce less peak barrel pressure than the T7 and depending on which bullet weight you might be using you could get additional 100 FPS (average) with a bullet weighing 270 - 300 grains, about the same velocity as T7 with lighter bullets.

If you are using a primer for ignition I would suggest T7-2f

 

[WPrather]

So 120grs is the max load for 777 loose powder?

 

[ShawnT]

I did not see what sabot you are using with the SST's. Are they just the supplied sabot that came in a blister pack or are you getting them separate? How much pressure does it take to start them though the muzzle crown, very easy to load?

 

[WPrather]

It’s just the regular Hornady red sabots that come with the SST’s. You can definately tell the bore on the TC is tighter that the CVA Optima V2 I have when you load the sabots. It’s tight but not hard.

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

So 120grs is the max load for 777 loose powder?

There are 43gr of 777 loose-equivalent in every 50gr 777 pellet. It was toned-down years ago to match the equivalency of Pyrodex pellets.

 

[ShawnT]

It’s just the regular Hornady red sabots that come with the SST’s. You can definately tell the bore on the TC is tighter that the CVA Optima V2 I have when you load the sabots. It’s tight but not hard.

The overall load diameter of a sabot with a bullet in it can very much change your accuracy. Changing out the sabots may well close up your groups. I seem to remember those Red sabots are an Easy Load sabot so a change to a regular smooth black or the Crush rib might help. Maybe one of the TC guys can tell you which they use.

Do you need a short starter to start them in the bore of you rifle or just thumb pressure?

Check out this link from the Sticky at the top of this forum for more info on sabot load diameters.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9798

 

[WPrather]

I don’t need a short starter on the TC with the QLA the whole bullet except for the red tip sits down in the barrel. The T handle ramrod gets it from their.

I am going to try some new sabots though. I want to get some of the crushed rib to try. I haven’t heard anything but good things about them.