Powder Fouling...

[Oscarflytyer]

Powder Fouling... Shooting Elephant FFg in my 58 cal ML. Fouling (after 3 shots) seems 'bad.' However, I am a complete neewb to BP. Is old Elephant worse in the fouling department?

I have Goex in FFFg for the revolver, and as I recall, fouling is not so bad(again, based on maybe <50 rds fired)

I also have/recently purchased/not opened/shot - Schuetzen FFg (new purchase) for the 58. Is it cleaner/mpre user friendly?

Thanx

 

[deermanok]

All black powder is dirty. Some dirtier than others. I think that Swiss is probably the cleanest burning. That Schuetzen brand is pretty good from what I've heard.

 

[CVA Fanboy]

I can`t speak for all, When I first made the decision to to take on Black Powder I was taken out by a shooter of Black Powder he allowed me to shoot his .50 Black Diamond at the 3rd shot he told me to stop, rod barrel with a brush then a patch wrapped brush he made sure I understood no matter the powder/substitute, rifle or pistol this step is a must, I adapted to the second round for me so when I shoot my .50 cals or my .36 cap and ball second round or second cylinder brush and patch and brush 3 things 1) It is easier to reload 2) Safety no embers or paper cartridges left smoldering when powder added or cartridge 3) Safety he referred to it as field maintenance. He stated it all fouls no matter the claim of it is "CLEANER". The extra step of field maintenance can spare you busted ramrod through your hand, obstructed barrel ill seated round. When ya get it home, as we did that day it was a DEEP CLEAN almost boiling water, soap, copper/bronze brush patches and pulling breech plugs. Then of course oiled. YES many such as, Willow, Balsa, charcoals and the Substitutes Blackhorn, Triple 7 "CLAIM CLEANER" not really that much more even if I do use them old habit of keeping shots on target, not wanting to injure ME due to fouling I still rod I might wait til the 3rd shot but very rarely do. Second shot rod, brush then brush with patch. to each his own accord Simple and short answer would have been there is no "clean Power or Substitute" eh then where is the education?

 

[ElDiablo]

Simple and short answer would have been there is no "clean Power or Substitute"

Actually, Bh209 is a different fouling universe from the other subs you mention. But we are getting off topic.

In my experience, as @deermanok says, all black powder is filthy.

 

[CVA Fanboy]

Actually, Bh209 is a different fouling universe from the other subs you mention. But we are getting off topic.

In my experience, as @deermanok says, all black powder is filthy.

I shot BH209 I see no Major difference in fouling, still leaves fouling on or off topic there is no notable difference other than the $90 for 8 ounces of BH209 truth be told still gotta be swabbed and cleaned

 

[ElDiablo]

I shot BH209 I see no Major difference in fouling, still leaves fouling on or off topic there is no notable difference other than the $90 for 8 ounces of BH209 truth be told still gotta be swabbed and cleaned

You may want to check out your bore with a borescope after a couple Bh209 shots and then after your choice of some other bp or sub and let us know if it isn’t cleaner. (No, Bh209 doesn’t need any swabbing.)

Here are pics just ahead of the plug after three shots of Bh209 vs one shot of 777.

 

[illinoishunter]

I'm oh so new to blackpowder still. But I've been through white hots, bh209 and T7 ffg. They all give me issues I haven't been able to work out. They all seem to foul about the same but in a different way. No more then 3 shots due to fouling with any of them. Two shots is the sweet spot for me. I have noticed that different primers have helped the bh209. The cheddite primers work better then fed 209a for me.

 

[eekjellander]

I can`t speak for all, When I first made the decision to to take on Black Powder I was taken out by a shooter of Black Powder he allowed me to shoot his .50 Black Diamond at the 3rd shot he told me to stop, rod barrel with a brush then a patch wrapped brush he made sure I understood no matter the powder/substitute, rifle or pistol this step is a must, I adapted to the second round for me so when I shoot my .50 cals or my .36 cap and ball second round or second cylinder brush and patch and brush 3 things 1) It is easier to reload 2) Safety no embers or paper cartridges left smoldering when powder added or cartridge 3) Safety he referred to it as field maintenance. He stated it all fouls no matter the claim of it is "CLEANER". The extra step of field maintenance can spare you busted ramrod through your hand, obstructed barrel ill seated round. When ya get it home, as we did that day it was a DEEP CLEAN almost boiling water, soap, copper/bronze brush patches and pulling breech plugs. Then of course oiled. YES many such as, Willow, Balsa, charcoals and the Substitutes Blackhorn, Triple 7 "CLAIM CLEANER" not really that much more even if I do use them old habit of keeping shots on target, not wanting to injure ME due to fouling I still rod I might wait til the 3rd shot but very rarely do. Second shot rod, brush then brush with patch. to each his own accord Simple and short answer would have been there is no "clean Power or Substitute" eh then where is the education?

Agreed all the way up to boiling water ,that's a habit not to start !!! /Ed

 

[eekjellander]

I shot BH209 I see no Major difference in fouling, still leaves fouling on or off topic there is no notable difference other than the $90 for 8 ounces of BH209 truth be told still gotta be swabbed and cleaned

But BH209 shoots accurate all day with accuracy and no grief loading ,pricey but worth it to some and no rush to clean like my BP . I use both cause both have a distinct purpose and that's a big difference /Ed

 

[jd24.5.48]

I shot BH209 I see no Major difference in fouling, still leaves fouling on or off topic there is no notable difference other than the $90 for 8 ounces of BH209 truth be told still gotta be swabbed and cleaned

BH209 doesn't leave the Crud Ring like other powders! No notable difference?

 

[Rodderbeck]

Every powder will leave a crud ring, even BH. Some powders just develop one a lot faster than others. All powders are dirty, even BH. Anytime your throwing fire in the barrel of any gun, it will get dirty. I swab my muzzleloaders between every other shot and clean and oil every 3. A crud ring will be noticable if I don't clean in about 7 shots but I'm not to lazy to clean my rifles.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Every powder will leave a crud ring, even BH. Some powders just develop one a lot faster than others. All powders are dirty, even BH. Anytime your throwing fire in the barrel of any gun, it will get dirty. I swab my muzzleloaders between every other shot and clean and oil every 3. A crud ring will be noticable if I don't clean in about 7 shots but I'm not to lazy to clean my rifles.

Can you tell us just how many rounds it would take for BH to create a "crud ring"?

I fired 125 rounds between Camp Atterbury and Friendship and there's no crud ring using BH.
I've fired up to 50 rounds using BH and never swabbed the barrel and there's no crud ring.

 

[birdog]

I have yet to encounter a crud ring in my Knights after a day of shooting BH.

 

[illinoishunter]

Walking the fence on this one because I agree with both sides. I have no reason to not believe any of ya. But I will say last time I was running BH by the third shot things were getting pretty rough to seat the bullet. Now was that the gun? Ignition system/primer choice? Wrong load combination? The operator!!! ? Probably a combination of the last option and another would be my guess. But I have no doubt it can be run shot after shot. I for one, are not there yet.

 

[Rodderbeck]

All I'm saying is the only difference I seen shooting BH was hang fires and a lot of $ going out the window. Seems like everyone thinks BH is the greatest powder ever and it hung the moon or something. If it works for you, wonderful. I tried it in 5 of my rifles. It didn't shoot any better than what I was already doing with 777. In fact 3 of those rifles lost accuracy when I used BH. I think it's a bunch of talk and a waste of money. Just my opinion. If you guys like spending almost 100 bucks for a dab of powder, then do it. I leaned my lesson

 

[Hanshi]

I've burned a LOT of Elephant, Jacks Battle Powder, Dupont, G-O, Goex and a little Swiss 3F. While any and all black powder is dirty, the old Elephant was at the top. Regardless, I always seemed to have good results when using it. I started with black powder from the get-go and have used nothing else since. From my start in the mid 1960s to now I've always had great success with black.

I eventually discovered how to mitigate bore fouling and shoot an entire afternoon with no wiping of the bore. Crud rings are rare and haven't been a problem. Seating a patched ball load for the 30th shot was no different than it was for the first load in a clean barrel. I shoot flintlocks which don't particularly like the subs. Black is pretty much fool proof - but brand new varieties of "fool" show up now and then. Good shooting, all, whether subs or black in your rifles.

 

[ENCORE50A]

All I'm saying is the only difference I seen shooting BH was hang fires and a lot of $ going out the window. Seems like everyone thinks BH is the greatest powder ever and it hung the moon or something. If it works for you, wonderful. I tried it in 5 of my rifles. It didn't shoot any better than what I was already doing with 777. In fact 3 of those rifles lost accuracy when I used BH. I think it's a bunch of talk and a waste of money. Just my opinion. If you guys like spending almost 100 bucks for a dab of powder, then do it. I leaned my lesson

Hang fires are because of the rifle's ignition system and not BH. With the proper ignition system, it'll ignite every time.
T7 is a good propellant and yes, cheaper at the moment. But, there's your crud ring.

As for the price.................. Back a couple administrations, we had a slight issue with finding propellants. I have no clue how many times I told shooters to purchase NOW and stock up. "Fool me once........"

 

[45-70]

Well if we were comparing real black to real black Elephant was and still is about the dirtiest. It also isn't made any more I believe

 

[45-70]

Powder Fouling... Shooting Elephant FFg in my 58 cal ML. Fouling (after 3 shots) seems 'bad.' However, I am a complete neewb to BP. Is old Elephant worse in the fouling department?

I have Goex in FFFg for the revolver, and as I recall, fouling is not so bad(again, based on maybe <50 rds fired)

I also have/recently purchased/not opened/shot - Schuetzen FFg (new purchase) for the 58. Is it cleaner/mpre user friendly?

Thanx

YES

 

[jd24.5.48]

All I'm saying is the only difference I seen shooting BH was hang fires and a lot of $ going out the window. Seems like everyone thinks BH is the greatest powder ever and it hung the moon or something. If it works for you, wonderful. I tried it in 5 of my rifles. It didn't shoot any better than what I was already doing with 777. In fact 3 of those rifles lost accuracy when I used BH. I think it's a bunch of talk and a waste of money. Just my opinion. If you guys like spending almost 100 bucks for a dab of powder, then do it. I leaned my lesson

I've never spent over $55 for a 10oz jug of BH! If you were having hangfires out of your rifles with BH either they were dirty or you were using the wrong 209 cap! I've never had a misfire with BH! The best thing that I like about BH is that I can see what happens after the shot! If and when I run out of BH then I'll debate whether to go back to the Crud Ring!