primers stuck in bare 209 bolt face

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captaincaveman said:
it's definitely not free floated
Click to expand...

Kinda what I thought. The could be affecting your accuracy unless it is making equal contact on both side all the way down the barrel.

Try putting the dollar bill in under the barrel near the rear of the barrel see if it will go in in places on both side of the barrel.

An easy temporary fix for testing would be to take a piece of Teflon like those light weight cutting boards in the kitchen and cut a piece to fit in the stock under the recoil lug. Then mark where the screw hole is and punch it out with a hole punch.

With this inserted in the stock and the recoil lug and rifle set on top of that - now is the barrel floating? If so and you can go shoot it and work back up the powder scale. Start with 110 - 120 and see what you get.

Also remember to place the front rest/bag back under the stock near the breech plug end of the barrel. Often people put the front rest out by the sling swivel this can cause POI's to shift depending on how much pressure you place on the stock.

Check where the front rest is in this picture that is about as far out on the stock as I would ever want it. Actually back even a little more.

 
I was thinking about a Boyds stock with a longer LOP anyways. Will one made for a disc work on a disc extreme?
 
The first thing I would do is start looking for the older Extreme bolt and get rid of the Mountaineer bolt. I also would try and find a Lehigh breech plug with a removable ventliner. There are some around for sure.

Your loads are pretty much what I have found as well. Most Knights do shoot better with 130 to 140grns by volume. I just don't like the recoil, and mostly shoot 120 to 130 by volume. If your talking about hunting accuracy you'll have no problem.
 
Grouse said:
The first thing I would do is start looking for the older Extreme bolt and get rid of the Mountaineer bolt. I also would try and find a Lehigh breech plug with a removable ventliner. There are some around for sure.

Your loads are pretty much what I have found as well. Most Knights do shoot better with 130 to 140grns by volume. I just don't like the recoil, and mostly shoot 120 to 130 by volume. If your talking about hunting accuracy you'll have no problem.
Click to expand...

sorry didn't see this before my last post. I have a source for the Lehigh plug but any idea where to find an old bolt? I also remember seeing something about shimming the primer pocket. Think that would work if I can't find a bolt? If so does anybody remember what washer to use and where to find them?
 
captaincaveman said:
Grouse said:
The first thing I would do is start looking for the older Extreme bolt and get rid of the Mountaineer bolt. I also would try and find a Lehigh breech plug with a removable ventliner. There are some around for sure.

Your loads are pretty much what I have found as well. Most Knights do shoot better with 130 to 140grns by volume. I just don't like the recoil, and mostly shoot 120 to 130 by volume. If your talking about hunting accuracy you'll have no problem.
Click to expand...

sorry didn't see this before my last post. I have a source for the Lehigh plug but any idea where to find an old bolt? I also remember seeing something about shimming the primer pocket. Think that would work if I can't find a bolt? If so does anybody remember what washer to use and where to find them?
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll need to shim it myself. The Extremes are usually pretty good.
 
captaincaveman said:
Ok thanks...Hopefully I can find an older bolt
Click to expand...

Can you post a picture of your Knight bolt housing out of the gun? A second question... does the knob on the bolt handle have a small knurling etching all the way around the bolt knob?

Do you want to try a experiment for me? Remove the bolt, then take the hammer assembly out of the bolt. Put the bolt back in the rifle. When you push the handle down now the bolt handle should drop right to the bottom with no effort or resistance at all. Now open the bolt install a primer in the face of the bolt. Close the bolt inserting the primer into the breech plug. This time as you lower the bolt this time do you feel any resistance to the handle going down to the stop? IF your head space is correct you should crush the primer just a bit and you should feel the resistance of pushing the nose of the primer into the seating shelf at the bottom of the primer pocket.

If this is happening you should be achieving "primer crush" and am assuming you are using a W209 primer. if this is happening the head space is correct.

I think it has been mentioned before in this thread that you also have to have a clear "flash channel" in the breech plug.
 
sabotloader said:
captaincaveman said:
Ok thanks...Hopefully I can find an older bolt
Click to expand...

Can you post a picture of your Knight bolt housing out of the gun? A second question... does the knob on the bolt handle have a small knurling etching all the way around the bolt knob?

Do you want to try a experiment for me? Remove the bolt, then take the hammer assembly out of the bolt. Put the bolt back in the rifle. When you push the handle down now the bolt handle should drop right to the bottom with no effort or resistance at all. Now open the bolt install a primer in the face of the bolt. Close the bolt inserting the primer into the breech plug. This time as you lower the bolt this time do you feel any resistance to the handle going down to the stop? IF your head space is correct you should crush the primer just a bit and you should feel the resistance of pushing the nose of the primer into the seating shelf at the bottom of the primer pocket.

If this is happening you should be achieving "primer crush" and am assuming you are using a W209 primer. if this is happening the head space is correct.

I think it has been mentioned before in this thread that you also have to have a clear "flash channel" in the breech plug.
Click to expand...
I will try that tonight
 
sabotloader said:
captaincaveman said:
Ok thanks...Hopefully I can find an older bolt
Click to expand...

Can you post a picture of your Knight bolt housing out of the gun? A second question... does the knob on the bolt handle have a small knurling etching all the way around the bolt knob?

Do you want to try a experiment for me? Remove the bolt, then take the hammer assembly out of the bolt. Put the bolt back in the rifle. When you push the handle down now the bolt handle should drop right to the bottom with no effort or resistance at all. Now open the bolt install a primer in the face of the bolt. Close the bolt inserting the primer into the breech plug. This time as you lower the bolt this time do you feel any resistance to the handle going down to the stop? IF your head space is correct you should crush the primer just a bit and you should feel the resistance of pushing the nose of the primer into the seating shelf at the bottom of the primer pocket.

If this is happening you should be achieving "primer crush" and am assuming you are using a W209 primer. if this is happening the head space is correct.

I think it has been mentioned before in this thread that you also have to have a clear "flash channel" in the breech plug.
Click to expand...
bolt closed the same with no effort wit and without primer...no crush at all, none. Also no knurling on bolt
 
captaincaveman said:
sabotloader said:
captaincaveman said:
Ok thanks...Hopefully I can find an older bolt
Click to expand...

Can you post a picture of your Knight bolt housing out of the gun? A second question... does the knob on the bolt handle have a small knurling etching all the way around the bolt knob?

Do you want to try a experiment for me? Remove the bolt, then take the hammer assembly out of the bolt. Put the bolt back in the rifle. When you push the handle down now the bolt handle should drop right to the bottom with no effort or resistance at all. Now open the bolt install a primer in the face of the bolt. Close the bolt inserting the primer into the breech plug. This time as you lower the bolt this time do you feel any resistance to the handle going down to the stop? IF your head space is correct you should crush the primer just a bit and you should feel the resistance of pushing the nose of the primer into the seating shelf at the bottom of the primer pocket.

If this is happening you should be achieving "primer crush" and am assuming you are using a W209 primer. if this is happening the head space is correct.

I think it has been mentioned before in this thread that you also have to have a clear "flash channel" in the breech plug.
Click to expand...
bolt closed the same with no effort wit and without primer...no crush at all, none. Also no knurling on bolt
Click to expand...

That is what I feared! So your head space is not there. Do you have a micrometer? The next step I would suggest to you is back the breech plug out a 1/4 of a turn and try the crush thing again. If no crush is felt turn the plug out another 1/4 turn. Continue this until you start feeling the crush.

I you have a mic measure from the rear of the receiver to the top of the breech plug. Record that measurement. Now turn the BP in again until it is seated snuggly not real tight but snug. Measure that distance. With the math that will tell you the amount of shimming you might need to get primer crush!

Have I ever asked what primer are you using?

That excess head space can cause many different problems.

Bare with me here and refresh my memory - is you problem the primer is sticking in the breech plug or sticking in the bolt? If it is sticking in the bolt does lifting and closing the bolt and pulling the trigger release the primer?

sorry to be confused

mike
 
W209 primers sticking in bolt...recocking bolt and pulling trigger will probably release it, didn't think to try that at the time
 
captaincaveman said:
W209 primers sticking in bolt...recocking bolt and pulling trigger will probably release it, didn't think to try that at the time
Click to expand...

Yes it probably will but that is a pain in the rear. I really think if you get the headspace correct and keep the primer rails in the bolt clean your problem could be solved.

The real problem is that the 209 primer is not held tight against the bolt face - when you close the bolt it moves forward a little bit. Then when you shoot the primer is driven with force back into the bolt... at that point the primer in the battery cup (the primer being heavy) is pushed out of the battery cup by inertia and back pressure... the only place for it to go is back up into the hammer hole in the face of the bolt. In away it is actually could be considered a built in safety device for release extensive and prolonged pressure.
 
pressure problem - load to hot - NEVER exceed recommended max load - when you reload you start 10% below max ( each weapon is individual - headspace, throat, ect. is never exactly the same ) and check for signs of pressure as you move up and NEVER exceed recommended max load - I would ck with manufacturer of rifle for max load
 

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